Wikidata:Property proposal/Ordained by

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ordained by[edit]

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   Under discussion
Descriptionthe subject has been ordained by
Data typeItem
Domainhuman (Q5)
Allowed valueshuman (Q5)
Example 1François-Xavier Ross (Q3083733)André-Albert Blais (Q653990)
Example 2Serge Poitras (Q32634)Marius Paré (Q11880955)
Example 3Terrence Prendergast (Q202685)Thomas Benjamin Fulton (Q55079014)
Planned useAdd it to Catholic prelates

Motivation[edit]

I would like to add the information on a subject Catholic prelate about which bishop has ordained him as priest. Amqui (talk) 15:16, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

Discussion[edit]

Ah, it was consecrator (P1598) I was thinking of. Isn't that the same thing as this proposal? ArthurPSmith (talk) 18:51, 1 April 2019 (UTC)
Consecrator is for bishop, not priest. Amqui (talk) 16:00, 10 April 2019 (UTC)
Ok - but it's essentially the same thing isn't it? Or somehow not? I'm not sure we should be letting detailed religious terminology determine properties here! ArthurPSmith (talk) 18:24, 10 April 2019 (UTC)
Symbol oppose vote.svg Oppose Use consecrator (P1598) unless somebody can explain how that's not sufficient. ArthurPSmith (talk) 20:25, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
which are both subclasses of ordination (Q7519600). This seems a rather fine (and denomination-specific) distinction - why not just rename the current property to "ordained by" and have it apply to both cases and any others like this? ArthurPSmith (talk) 17:46, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
+1. Anyone know of any reason why we can't use one property for both types? --Yair rand (talk) 20:17, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
This property could be used for Roman Catholic, Orthodox, and Anglican churches. In fact, the Infobox Christian leader has two different parameters: ordained_by and consecrated_by. --Gerwoman (talk) 10:42, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
@Gerwoman: Would "ordained by" be incorrect for any of the relevant groups? Does creating a separate property allow any data that otherwise wouldn't be possible to add? --Yair rand (talk) 21:24, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
Is not incorrect Pmt. But in the case of a bishop, he was ordained by N1 as a deacon, ordained by N2 as a presbyter, and ordained by N3 as a bishop. How do you distinguish these 3 persons? What do you think Amqui? --Gerwoman (talk) 18:41, 13 May 2019 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support As the proposer. Amqui (talk) 15:18, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

Ping Speltdecca ;). Nomen ad hoc (talk) 15:27, 27 May 2019 (UTC).

Symbol support vote.svg Support :
priestly ordination (Q41463697) by ordinator (Q64086634) : ordinando (Q3885121) (Layperson (Q10317028) or deacon (Q161944)) -> Q64088408 (priest (Q42603))
episcopal consecration (Q40092973) by consecrator (P1598) : Q64089352 (priest (Q42603)) -> consacré (Q64089000) (bishop (Q29182))
Speltdecca (talk) 20:10, 27 May 2019 (UTC)
Symbol support vote.svg Support For countries that one man can (de jure (Q132555)) have multiple religious believes (e.g. Mainland China), consecrator (P1598) can really be a problem, as you can't force that guy to always consecrator (P1598) some_values, but you can force to "this new property"->something. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 22:32, 27 May 2019 (UTC)