Wikidata:Property proposal/Norwegian silvertax 1816 contributor ID

Norwegian silvertax 1816 contributor ID

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Authority control

   Not done

Description	Identifier for a citizen contributing to the Norwegian silvertax of 1816
Represents	Silver tax 1816 (Q25429073)
Data type	External identifier
Domain	human (Q5) with country of citizenship (P27) : Norway (Q20)
Allowed values	pt\d+
Example 1	Robert Gonsalvo Major (Q17125702) → pt00000000323418
Example 2	Christian Stephansen (Q12714049) → pt00000000239164
Example 3	Ludvig Mariboe (Q4580114) → pt00000000218520
Example 4	Mathias Bonsach Krogh (Q4586868) → pt00000000348812
Source	https://media.digitalarkivet.no/db/browse?archives%5B%5D=2005
Planned use	as identfier for norwegian citizens contributing to the tax creating the new norwegian national bank
Number of IDs in source	126000
Expected completeness	always incomplete (Q21873886)
Formatter URL	https://www.digitalarkivet.no/view/97/$1
Robot and gadget jobs	Mix'n'Match
See also	Norwegian historical register of persons ID (P4574) Wikidata:Project_chat/Archive/2018/09#Silver_tax_1816

Motivering/begrunnelse

This tax was a forced contribution for norwegian citizen owning land or having a fortune, to create a a primarie money Foundation for Norges Bank (Q970769)

(Legg inn motivering/begrunnelse for forslaget til denne egenskapen her.) Pmt (talk) 20:25, 11 January 2019 (UTC)

Discussion

•  Support David (talk) 07:25, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
•  Support ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 14:52, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
•  Oppose Can't these records be assigned to the "Norwegian historical register of persons ID". It is not intuitive, but you take one of the record IDs and assign it as the "Norwegian historical register of persons ID" at the HDR website and get this: http://www.histreg.no/index.php/person/daid/pt00000000323418 and with one ID we get all the entries for this person in all the records that they appear in. It is much simpler than having a half dozen identifiers, one for each census, one for the silver tax, one for each appearance in the ships register index. As more records get indexed at the archive these IDs with grow and grow. --RAN (talk) 18:51, 15 January 2019 (UTC)
•  Comment This is an identificator for people in a specific register. As for many other items and persons they may exist in more than one record. For authentification for one certain thing a one to one relation must be identified. There is no given one to one relation to Norwegian historical register of persons ID to each person in the proposed property. Indexing and working within Norwegian historical register of persons is outside the Scope of wikidata. Cencuses mentioned in Norwegian historical register of persons should be used as References and with property stated in (P248) to be used in the references field to refer to the information document or database in which a claim is made; for qualifiers use P805

Also for running queries such an item must be sorted out. It not possible sorting out specific dates and values from Norwegian historical register of persons as it is aregister containing multiple records registered into one ID. Pmt (talk) 14:57, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

• @Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ): I have commented on Your remarks above. Do you have further questions after I have commented?. Pmt (talk) 14:13, 17 February 2019 (UTC)
•  Oppose still, for the reason given above. We already have "Norwegian historical register of persons ID" that acts as a master identifier for all of the entries in the tax rolls, censuses, church registers for birth and marriage and death, passenger lists, etc. I admit that the process to aggregate them is not intuitive, but I was able to do it. See here: http://www.histreg.no/index.php/person/daid/pt00000000323418 and here http://histreg.no/index.php/person/pv00000001241885 (my great grandfather). Even though you proposed "Norwegian historical register of persons ID (P4574)" I was not convinced you understood how it worked. The links you gave as examples were to entries in the censuses and other lists, they were not true "Norwegian historical register of persons IDs", that is why I opposed it. It took me a few days to figure out how to create a true "Norwegian historical register of persons ID" that aggregated all the other IDs. As I said it is not intuitive at all. --RAN (talk) 16:56, 17 February 2019 (UTC)
•  Comment Given that there are real use cases where it is necessary to identify the Norwegian silver tax. The Norwegian historical register reuse the ids, but in such a way that the ids and their records are completely opaque from the outside. We don't know their meaning, and we can't do anything except accept that two identifiers are the same. That is pretty awkward. I told the people at Riksarkivet this many years ago, but it seems like they simply neglect any problems.
  We might do things slightly different, and perhaps it is wise in this case, as we do use a variant of Norwegian historical register of persons ID (P4574) we could add applies to part (P518) and let it point to Silver tax 1816 (Q25429073). This could work for other ids from HistReg too. If we are able to capture the information from HistReg at a later point, then the added qualifier would be fairly easy to handle. It would also be fairly easy to handle all the different identifiers in infoboxes at Wikipedia. Jeblad (talk) 17:06, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

•  Not done, use the approach suggested by Jeblad − Pintoch (talk) 07:48, 29 November 2019 (UTC)