Wikidata:Property proposal/NUKAT (non-VIAF) ID

NUKAT ID

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Authority control

   Withdrawn

Description	identifier for authority control in the Center of Library Warsaw University catalog
Represents	NUKAT (Q11789729)
Data type	External identifier
Allowed values	\d{9}
Example 1	Wisława Szymborska (Q42552) → 008467396
Example 2	Adam Mickiewicz (Q79822) → 000440479
Example 3	Tadeusz Kościuszko (Q191479) → 000373171
Source	http://katalog.nukat.edu.pl/search/query?theme=nukat
External links	Use in sister projects: [ar] • [de] • [en] • [es] • [fr] • [he] • [it] • [ja] • [ko] • [nl] • [pl] • [pt] • [ru] • [sv] • [vi] • [zh] • [commons] • [species] • [wd] • [en.wikt] • [fr.wikt].
Planned use	Bot-addition to all items having NUKAT ID (P1207)
Number of IDs in source	Over 1.9M
Expected completeness	always incomplete (Q21873886)
Formatter URL	http://katalog.nukat.edu.pl/lib/authority?heading&id=$1
See also	NUKAT ID (P1207)

Motivation

Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 11:59, 13 March 2017 (UTC) Jonathan Groß (talk) 17:52, 26 March 2017 (UTC) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits Jneubert (talk) 13:47, 29 April 2017 (UTC) Sic19 (talk) 20:42, 12 July 2017 (UTC) Wikidelo (talk) 21:15, 8 May 2018 (UTC) ArthurPSmith (talk) 19:52, 22 August 2018 (UTC) PKM (talk) 19:40, 23 August 2018 (UTC) Ettorerizza (talk) 06:44, 8 October 2018 (UTC) Fuzheado (talk) 03:47, 19 December 2018 (UTC) Daniel Mietchen (talk) 16:30, 7 April 2019 (UTC) Iwan.Aucamp (talk) 21:48, 3 October 2019 (UTC) Epìdosis (talk) 23:49, 22 November 2019 (UTC) Sotho Tal Ker (talk) 00:52, 1 May 2020 (UTC) Bargioni (talk) 09:48, 02 May 2020 (UTC) Carlobia (talk) 14:34, 11 May 2020 (UTC) Pablo Busatto (talk) 03:22, 23 June 2020 (UTC) Matlin (talk) 10:53, 6 July 2020 (UTC) Msuicat (talk) 21:57, 27 August 2020 (UTC) Uomovariabile (talk) 10:04, 27 October 2020 (UTC) Silva Selva (talk) 17:21, 30 November 2020 (UTC) 1-Byte (talk) 15:52, 14 December 2020 (UTC) Alessandra.Moi (talk) 17:26, 16 February 2021 (UTC) CamelCaseNick (talk) 21:20, 20 February 2021 (UTC) Songceci (talk) 18:45, 24 February 2021 (UTC)]] moz (talk) 10:48, 8 March 2021 (UTC) AhavaCohen (talk) 14:41, 11 March 2021 (UTC) Kolja21 (talk) 17:37, 13 March 2021 (UTC) RShigapov (talk) 14:34, 19 September 2021 (UTC) Jason.nlw (talk) 15:15, 30 September 2021 (UTC) MasterRus21thCentury (talk) 20:22, 18 October 2021 (UTC) Newt713 (talk) 08:42, 13 March 2022 (UTC) Pierre Tribhou (talk) 08:00, 20 March 2022 (UTC) Powerek38 (talk) 17:21, 14 April 2022 (UTC) Ahatd (talk) 08:34, 4 August 2022 (UTC) JordanTimothyJames (talk) 00:54, 31 August 2022 (UTC) --Silviafanti (talk) 17:07, 14 September 2022 (UTC) Back ache (talk) 02:03, 1 November 2022 (UTC) AfricanLibrarian (talk) M.roszkowski (talk) 10:44, 4 January 2023 (UTC) Rhagfyr (talk) 19:36, 9 January 2023 (UTC) — Haseeb (talk) 13:10, 4 August 2023 (UTC) 沈澄心✉ 13:26, 15 November 2023 (UTC) MrBenjo (talk) 15:20, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

Notified participants of WikiProject Authority control This problem is similar to NSZL (VIAF) ID (P951)/NSZL name authority ID (P3133) (and see also a potentially similar case in Property talk:P7700), although quite larger: the existing property NUKAT ID (P1207) (with over 150k uses) bears a NUKAT ID used only by VIAF, while the "true" ID used by NUKAT website is stored by VIAF in 035, preceded by "vtls" (e.g. here). In sum, having this ID is far more useful than having the ID used only by VIAF, which can nevertheless be useful at least to extract this; the old property will be maintained with label "NUKAT (VIAF) ID", while this will have the simple label "NUKAT ID". Thanks to @Sotho Tal Ker: for having outlined the necessity of this property. Epìdosis 16:23, 22 June 2020 (UTC) Also

Powerek38 Wostr Wiklol Witia Holek Pit rock Yarl Kpjas 99kerob Matlin masti Upior_polnocy Darellur Bogic

Notified participants of WikiProject Poland. --Epìdosis 16:25, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

Discussion

•  Support I think the reasons given above are very convincing. Powerek38 (talk) 16:28, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
•  Support Indeed, the idea is the most accurate. All given linking examples work correctly. The original source pages for an authority control is certainly better than the information duplicated in VIAF item pages. Full support. --Pit rock (talk) 16:48, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
•  Support Wostr (talk) 17:19, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
•  Support - PKM (talk) 18:37, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
•  Support - Kpjas (talk) 18:43, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
•  Support --Jneubert (talk) 19:05, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
•  Support --Sotho Tal Ker (talk) 11:52, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
•  Support we also have GND/LoC etc. separately, this makes sense --Hannes Röst (talk) 19:38, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
•  Comment I need to make an additional comment. The value stored in VIAF is also used by NUKAT. It is stored in field 010, but with two spaces between the "n" and the numbers. This can be accessed directly aswell via NUKAT, as pointed out on the talk page of P1207 by @Vladimir_Alexiev:. This new value seems to have been introduced in November 2019. I still support the creation of this one, though. Both are different enough. --Sotho Tal Ker (talk) 17:18, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
•  Comment As a representative of a library using NUKAT data in everyday work I would like to point out that the number preceded by vtls is a purely technical number (so called system number) used by the current ILS (i.e. Virtua VTLS). A stable number is the control number stored in the 010 field in the original record (cf. e.g. [1]). It is not guaranteed that the system number will survive a change of the ILS whereas the control number definitely will. For more comments please contact NUKAT itself (nukat@uw.edu.pl). In my opinion it is useless to introduce a property bound to the technical system number.  – The preceding unsigned comment was added by AKtoJ (talk • contribs).

  @AKtoJ: Thank you for your comment! We will contact directly NUKAT in order to establish in the best way the possible usefulness of vtls ID, although from your clear comment seems already evident that it is not stable enough and that the real ID is that which we already have as NUKAT ID (P1207). --Epìdosis 09:01, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

@Epìdosis: Are you planning to withdraw this proposal then, assuming the above is confirmed? ArthurPSmith (talk) 18:10, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

• @ArthurPSmith: Of course, if the above is confirmed. Hopefully we will know in a few days. --Epìdosis 21:44, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

@Epìdosis: So if the proposal will be withdrawn, can we use within the existing Wikidata's NUKAT property (NUKAT's) #024 property's (the 1st of them) external link to getting to the NUKAT pages instead of VIAF item subpages? For ex. – 024 … http://nukat.edu.pl/aut/n 94201670 for "Szymborska, Wisława $d (1923-2012)". --Pit rock (talk) 01:15, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

• @Pit rock: I think it should be possible, I've opened a ticket. --Epìdosis 08:10, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

• OK, thanks. I've asked about that, because the only reason that in our Polish Wikipedia (articles) the NUKAT authority control ID number isn't used is because of the lack of external linking (insetead of the VIAF's one). If that would be posiible, here in Wikidata, I'll ask our technician @Paweł Ziemian to do the same change within our Wikipedia article pages. --Pit rock (talk) 22:04, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
• We've (pl.wiki community) already got peace of mind about this feature: P. Ziemian's just added a proper linking into the authority control module. --Pit rock (talk) 22:58, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
• @Paweł Ziemian: This change is not quite right. Keep in mind that control numbers could have one or two spaces -> https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafa%C5%82_Trzaskowski (not work)

• P. Ziemian made that little fix (some control IDs have only 8 digits, but the others have 10 of them, which are preceeded by 2 or only one space, respectively). His change: /"..prefix.."%20%20"..number → /"..prefix..infix..number. --Pit rock (talk) 18:39, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

NUKAT answered:

What is the best solution, if any, to define a NUKAT stable id? Values in 010?

Yes. The stable ID is based on the control number from field 010.

So I withdraw the proposal, since this ID isn't stable and the stable one is NUKAT ID (P1207). --Epìdosis 09:54, 4 July 2020 (UTC)