Wikidata:Property proposal/Jyutping (2)

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Jyutping[edit]

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   Under discussion
DescriptionJyutping transliteration of Cantonese words and names
RepresentsJyutping (Q649913)
Data typeString
Template parameteren:template:Infobox Chinese parameter for Cantonese Jyutping
Domainsimilar to pinyin transliteration (P1721)
Allowed valuessimilar to pinyin transliteration (P1721)
Example 1Lo Chuen Tsung (Q1539604) → 盧傳淞: Lou4 Cyun4 Sung1
Example 2Chow Yun-fat (Q181425) → 周潤發: Zau1 Jeon6-faat3
Example 3Yuen Woo-ping (Q460297) → 袁和平: Jyun4 Wo4 ping4
Sourceen:Jyutping

Motivation[edit]

A previous proposal was dismissed, saying that there are other ways to include transliteration, to "just use transliteration (P2440) (some values) with qualifier determination method (P459) Jyutping (Q649913)" This obviously doesn't work for names, see for example Lo Chuen Tsung (Q1539604) where I tried to follow this advice and got error messages.

Also, Cantonese Jyutping is needed as much as pinyin transliteration (P1721) is needed to transcribe from Chinese. Pinyin transliteration is for Mandarin Chinese. While Chinese characters can be transcribed using Pinyin, for Cantonese names it would be like using Japanese Hepburn to transcribe the very same characters: it results in a different pronunciation. Cantonese is different from Mandarin. Cantonese speakers' names are transcribed with the help of Jyutping. It is not a "spelling variant" as one commenter claimed in the closed discussion. Media or speakers of Cantonese might use unofficial transcription methods, often without any system or logic, see how Lo Chuen Tsung is different from Lou4 Cyun4 Sung1. Transcription systems allow you to be able to pronounce a name as it should sound originally, instead of guess-working it based on a random English spelling chosen by a newspaper or a person to write the name in Latin script. Mandarin Pinyin is not able to provide this function for Cantonese names.

All in all, Jyutping transliteration is needed for Cantonese reading of Chinese characters, as much as Pinyin is needed for the Mandarin reading of the same characters (or Hepburn for the Japanese reading).

I am not very familiar with the technicalities, but the property should work similarly to pinyin transliteration (P1721), allowing for text, and also for numbers (see examples). Teemeah (talk) 20:13, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

Discussion[edit]

  • Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment There are many versions of comparison of cantonese romanization systems. For example, the Hong Kong Language Institute Edition, the Hong Kong Government Edition, and the Yale University Edition. Maybe we should consider creating properties for other programs. --Catherine Laurence discussion 14:24, 11 November 2019 (UTC)
  • Symbol neutral vote.svg Neutral It seems that those existing "transliteration" properties are under all re-considering, because with the Lexeme system, those transliterations should also be considered as Lemmas one-by-one. Those properties should be re-created as linking with Lexeme pages, if one day the related consensus got. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 09:35, 16 November 2019 (UTC)