Wikidata:Property proposal/Archive/36

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Autoignition temperature[edit]

Description lowest temperature at which it will spontaneously ignite in a normal atmosphere without an external source of ignition
Data type quantity (units = temperature)-invalid datatype (not in Module:i18n/datatype)
Template parameter fr:infobox chimie, en:chembox
Domain chemistry, physic
Allowed values number
Example MISSING
Proposed by Snipre (talk) 12:12, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
Discussion

Symbol support vote.svg Support - have you also considered using "ignition point = 100 °C" with a qualifier "ignitions conditions (item) = autoignition, flame point, ...". --Tobias1984 (talk) 18:29, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

Why not. But how many different ignition temperature do we have ? The most common temperature are flash point and autoignition temperature. There is still the ignition temperature but this is not widely used as characteristic criterion. So if we have only 2 properties we don't save anything by creating one general property and one qualifier. Snipre (talk) 12:07, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
That is true. We might even need those qualifiers for measurement conditions or something. --Tobias1984 (talk) 08:45, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment couldn't this and the next property be modelled simply with the property temperature and qualifiers instanceof (Flash Point, autoignition) and pressure?  — Felix Reimann (talk) 23:03, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
Symbol support vote.svg Support Having Autoignition as a separate property would make it easier to access from an infobox. Macadamia1472 (talk) 06:13, 16 October 2013 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support. datatype changed. This should be a sub-property of Temperature. Joe Filceolaire (talk) 21:41, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

electric charge[edit]

Description The electric charge of a subatomic particle.
Data type Quantity
Domain all subatomic particles
Example MISSING
Proposed by MER-C (talk) 13:58, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
Symbol support vote.svg Support --Paperoastro (talk) 15:00, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
Symbol support vote.svg Support Seems straight forward. --Njardarlogar (talk) 21:22, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
Symbol support vote.svg Support but confused with the units... Units have to be sorted out before implementing this proposal see Wikidata Diskussion:Property proposal.
@MER-C: Could you still add the new property documentation template and an example where you want to use this? --Tobias1984 (talk) 14:33, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

Dipole moment (en)[edit]

See Wikidata:Property_proposal/Pending/2#Dipole moment (en)

Data type quantity with unit-invalid datatype (not in Module:i18n/datatype)
Domain chemistry, physics
Example water (Q283): 1.85 debye (Q40603)
Proposed by GZWDer (talk) 03:07, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
Discussion
Symbol support vote.svg Support Snipre (talk) 12:09, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
Symbol support vote.svg Support --Kaligula (talk) 07:06, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
Symbol support vote.svg Support--Saehrimnir (talk) 15:46, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
Symbol support vote.svg Support--I9606 (talk) 18:25, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
Symbol support vote.svg Support--lv_ra (talk) 13:38, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

lower flammable limit[edit]

Description the lower bound of the concentration range over which a flammable mixture of gas or vapour in air can be ignited at a given temperature and pressure
Represents flammability limit (Q899502)
Data type Number (not available yet)
Template parameter en:Template:Chembox parameter ExploLimits
Domain chemicals
Allowed values percentages, so presumably the highest it can go is 100%.
Example methyl bromide (Q421758) → 10%
Format and edit filter validation Should we check for values that are negative or above 100%?
Source Pocket Guide to Chemical Hazards published by National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (Q60346)
Robot and gadget jobs Future importation of Pocket Guide to Chemical Hazards into Wikidata
Motivation

This is valuable safety information that I would like to import as part of my importation of the Pocket Guide to Chemical Hazards into Wikidata. James Hare (NIOSH) (talk) 16:44, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

Saehrimnir
Leyo
Snipre
Jasper Deng
Dcirovic
Walkerma
Egon Willighagen
Denise Slenter
Daniel Mietchen
Andy Mabbett
Kopiersperre
Emily Temple-Wood
Pablo Busatto (Almondega)
Nothingserious
Antony Williams (EPA)
TomT0m
Wostr
Devon Fyson
User:DePiep
User:DavRosen
Benjaminabel
99of9
Kubaello
Fractaler
Sebotic
Netha
Pictogram voting comment.svg Notified participants of WikiProject Chemistry

Symbol support vote.svg Support Snipre (talk) 23:05, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

upper flammable limit[edit]

Description the upper bound of the concentration range over which a flammable mixture of gas or vapour in air can be ignited at a given temperature and pressure
Represents flammability limit (Q899502)
Data type Number (not available yet)
Template parameter en:Template:Chembox parameter ExploLimits
Domain chemicals
Allowed values percentages, so presumably the highest it can go is 100%.
Example methyl bromide (Q421758) → 16.0%
Format and edit filter validation Should we check for values that are negative or above 100%?
Source Pocket Guide to Chemical Hazards published by National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (Q60346)
Robot and gadget jobs Future importation of Pocket Guide to Chemical Hazards into Wikidata
Motivation

This is valuable safety information that I would like to import as part of my importation of the Pocket Guide to Chemical Hazards into Wikidata. James Hare (NIOSH) (talk) 16:48, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

Saehrimnir
Leyo
Snipre
Jasper Deng
Dcirovic
Walkerma
Egon Willighagen
Denise Slenter
Daniel Mietchen
Andy Mabbett
Kopiersperre
Emily Temple-Wood
Pablo Busatto (Almondega)
Nothingserious
Antony Williams (EPA)
TomT0m
Wostr
Devon Fyson
User:DePiep
User:DavRosen
Benjaminabel
99of9
Kubaello
Fractaler
Sebotic
Netha
Pictogram voting comment.svg Notified participants of WikiProject Chemistry

Symbol support vote.svg Support Snipre (talk) 23:06, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

minimum explosive concentration[edit]

Description the minimum concentration at which a chemical can explode
Data type Number (not available yet)
Domain chemicals
Allowed values number with a unit of measurement that represents density, such as gram per litre (Q834105)
Example starch (Q41534) → 0.05 gram per litre (Q834105)
Source Pocket Guide to Chemical Hazards, published by National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (Q60346)
Robot and gadget jobs Future mass importation of the Pocket Guide to Chemical Hazards into Wikidata.
Motivation

This is important chemical safety information that will be included as part of the importation of the Pocket Guide to Chemical Hazards into Wikidata. James Hare (NIOSH) (talk) 17:50, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

Saehrimnir
Leyo
Snipre
Jasper Deng
Dcirovic
Walkerma
Egon Willighagen
Denise Slenter
Daniel Mietchen
Andy Mabbett
Kopiersperre
Emily Temple-Wood
Pablo Busatto (Almondega)
Nothingserious
Antony Williams (EPA)
TomT0m
Wostr
Devon Fyson
User:DePiep
User:DavRosen
Benjaminabel
99of9
Kubaello
Fractaler
Sebotic
Netha
Pictogram voting comment.svg Notified participants of WikiProject Chemistry

Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment Is there really a standard value ? Concentration is not enough, particule size is important too. Snipre (talk) 23:09, 27 September 2015 (UTC)
Snipre, the standard for testing minimum explosive concentration is ASTM E1515. While not considered an "absolute" measurement, it is a way by which dust clouds of different substances can be compared on the basis of their explosiveness. James Hare (NIOSH) (talk) 13:49, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
Symbol support vote.svg Support For controlled vocabulary we should probably include the organization in the title. I would suggest "minimum explosive concentration according to ASTM E1515" --Tobias1984 (talk) 17:51, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
What if the reference to ASTM E1515 was through determination method (P459), in case other standards are also used? James Hare (NIOSH) (talk) 16:18, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

first aid response to exposure[edit]

Description appropriate first aid protocol to employ when exposed to a chemical through a certain exposure route
Represents first aid (Q133981)
Data type Item
Domain chemicals or other things that are hazardous to health
Allowed values subclasses of first aid (Q133981) such as skin frostbite protocol (Q21010959) or move to fresh air (Q21010971)
Example hafnium (Q1119)immediate eye irrigation (Q21010953); prompt washing with soap (Q21010964); artificial respiration (Q545991); immediate medical attention (Q21010973)
Source Pocket Guide to Chemical Hazards, published by National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (Q60346)
Robot and gadget jobs Part of future mass importation of the Pocket Guide to Chemical Hazards into Wikidata.
Motivation

This is part of a mass importation of data from the Pocket Guide to Chemical Hazards into Wikidata. There are multiple first aid responses for each chemical depending on the route of exposure and toxicity of that particular chemical. Once the chemical route of exposure property is created, I can associate that with each first aid-related item that I created so that it is clearer which is associated with which route of exposure. James Hare (NIOSH) (talk) 19:16, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

Discussion
Symbol support vote.svg Support But I would just call it "first aid measures" or something more general. This property could also be used for items for injuries and topics in emergency medicine. --Tobias1984 (talk) 12:05, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
Sounds good to me. James Hare (NIOSH) (talk) 16:29, 7 October 2015 (UTC)


Tobias1984
Doc James
User:Bluerasberry
Wouterstomp
Gambo7
Daniel Mietchen
Andrew Su
Peter.C
Klortho
Remember
Matthiassamwald
Projekt ANA
Andrux
Pavel Dušek
Was a bee
Alepfu
FloNight
Genewiki123
Emw
emitraka
Lschriml
Mvolz
Franciaio
User:CFCF
User:Lucas559
User:Jtuom
Chris Mungall
ChristianKl
Gstupp
Geoide
Sintakso
علاء
Netha
Dr. Abhijeet Safai
Pictogram voting comment.svg Notified participants of WikiProject Medicine --Tobias1984 (talk) 12:05, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

✓ Done --Tobias1984 (talk) 18:11, 11 October 2015 (UTC)


lethal dose[edit]

Description lethal dose, included LDLo, LD50, LD100. see Wikidata:Chemistry_task_force/Properties.
Data type Number (not available yet)
Example mercuric chloride (Q143200)=>41 mg/kg with species=rat, route of administration (P636)=dermal, specifically=median lethal dose (Q711849)
Proposed by GZWDer (talk)
Discussion

Motivation. GZWDer (talk) 16:30, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

I don't think LDLo, LD50, LD100, etc. should be merged together. --Leyo 14:45, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
Symbol support vote.svg Support But I would prefer one property for each different concept because for toxicity we have already the species or the different conditions like the experiment duration for concentration as qualifier. as first target I propose to have one property for LD50, we can wait a little before creating two other properties for the LDLo and LD100 which are not used in the same extend as for LD50. Snipre (talk) 12:30, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment. I agree with Snipre: we should have different properties for all the different toxicity metric. I also think these properties should be taxon-specific, since qualifiers will not be queryable in the foreseeable future. So we should start with LD50 for humans. I'd recommend proposing these properties in a batch, so we're not waiting 3 months to get these properties created. Emw (talk) 05:45, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

Uncertainty[edit]

   Not done
Description Statistical uncertainty
Data type Number (not available yet)
Example tbc
Source Freebase
Robot and gadget jobs Freebase import
Motivation

To be used as a qualifier. Needed to import https://www.freebase.com/chemistry/atomic_mass/uncertainty Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:05, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

Discussion
@Pigsonthewing: The Freebase link does not work for me at the moment, so I can't look at the exmaple. I think the proposal needs a more general discussion on how things like this should be handled. The measure is meaningless without knowing (1) how it was calculated and (2) what the calculated uncertainty is (3) if it is given as a fraction, percentage or in absolute values. For example en:Copernicium even has an asymmetric uncertainty: 357 (+112/−108)K given in the absolute measure and the mode of calculation should be mentioned in the source. I am not sure the number-datatype can handle this complexity. We need some kind of datatype that gives us a few fields for all these values. For example Uncertainty: (Field 1: +Uncertainty)[Number], (Field 2: -Uncertainty, Optional: only use when asymmetric)[Number], (Field 3: Relative, Absolute)[Item], (Field 4: Mode of Calculation)[Item]. --Tobias1984 (talk) 13:24, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
Link works for me (you need to select the "instances" tab for example values). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:26, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
Symbol oppose vote.svg Oppose Should be part of a global concept for uncertainty because uncertainty is not only one value. Snipre (talk) 12:58, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
+1 Symbol oppose vote.svg Oppose --Succu (talk) 21:51, 26 June 2015 (UTC)
Symbol support vote.svg Support Scientific data will stay a minority here. The general concept (± operator) is enough for the moment.--Kopiersperre (talk) 17:28, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
We will have tons of scientific data here in the future. But this should be done with datatype quantity. --Succu (talk)
Symbol oppose vote.svg Oppose in favor of the future built-in data types for this.--Jasper Deng (talk) 02:48, 3 July 2015 (UTC)
Pictogram voting question.svg Question Could you fill the example field? It's not clear for me. Almondega (talk) 03:09, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
We already have this in the units datatype. Did you mean 'Confidence interval (Q208498)' (95%?) or the number of 'standard deviation (Q159375)'? This would be better as part of the data model for the quantity datatype so that there is no danger of one being edited independent of the other. Joe Filceolaire (talk) 22:58, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
 Not done @Pigsonthewing: I think we need a property to express uncertainty in the qualifiers (e.g. "uncertainty corresponds to" = "1 sigma"). But I think it needs a fresh start with a new proposal. --Tobias1984 (talk) 11:18, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

relative density to air[edit]

   Not done
Description the density of a gas relative to the density of air at the same temperature
Represents relative density (Q11027905)
Data type Number (not available yet)
Domain gases
Allowed values any number (dimensionless)
Example methyl bromide (Q421758) → 3.36
Source Pocket Guide to Chemical Hazards, published by National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (Q60346)
Robot and gadget jobs Part of future mass importation of the Pocket Guide to Chemical Hazards into Wikidata.
Motivation

This is part of a mass importation of data from the Pocket Guide to Chemical Hazards into Wikidata. James Hare (NIOSH) (talk) 18:12, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

Discussion
Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment Currently I think we can calculate relative densities from all the abosolute densitities. This also avoids that we have to define "standard air density". --Tobias1984 (talk) 17:39, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
 Not done Not enough support. Alteranative probably works. --Tobias1984 (talk) 11:19, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

Periodic table block[edit]

   Not done
Description The section of the periodic table to which an element belongs
Represents periodic table block (Q193099)
Data type Item
Template parameter |block= in en:Template:Infobox element
Domain chemical elements
Allowed values Instances of periodic table block (Q193099)
Example oxygen (Q629)p-block (Q214483)
Source Freebase
Robot and gadget jobs Freebase import
Motivation

Needed to import https://www.freebase.com/chemistry/chemical_element/periodic_table_block Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:20, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

Discussion
BA candidate.svg Weak oppose I think we already discussed a similar property once, and I think the consensus was to use multiple values of subclass of (P279) for each element. An element can be part of a block and a period. Infoboxes can ask for all the subclass of (P279) values, and with arbitrary data access ask for which p279 leads to a block, and which p279 statement leads to a period. --Tobias1984 (talk) 13:29, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
@Tobias1984: Please can you link to that discussion, and/ or provide an example item which uses that model? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:06, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
@Pigsonthewing: see Help:Classification : blocks can be seen as classes of elements. For example we can write
< Hydrogen > instance of (P31) View with SQID < s-block element >
, with
< s-block element > subclass of (P279) View with SQID < chemical element >
. With the help of WD:Property proposal/Generic#subclass, we can even express that each s-block element atom is a member of exactly one of the subclasses. TomT0m (talk) 16:22, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
@TomT0m: Thank you. My request was for a link to the previous discussion of "a similar property" to the one proposed, and an example - if one exists - of where the model for periodic table blocks proposed by Tobias1984 is already used. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:22, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
@Pigsonthewing: The old discussion is at Wikidata:Property_proposal/Archive/20 --Tobias1984 (talk) 10:51, 14 July 2015 (UTC)
BA candidate.svg Weak oppose generic classification tools can handle this. As long as we have a good definition for the s-block element metaclass, which seems to me pretty clear (but I'm not an expert). TomT0m (talk) 16:27, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
Symbol oppose vote.svg Oppose. To specialised a property. Just use 'subclass of'. Joe Filceolaire (talk) 16:01, 2 August 2015 (UTC)
Symbol opinion vote.svg Opinion. The domain of a function (Q192439) must be group (Q83306). Almondega (talk) 03:28, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
 Not done Not enough support. --Tobias1984 (talk) 11:21, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

Mass / Weight property[edit]

The following proposals were pending, but it would be good to take another look at how to handle the situations across Wikidata. --Tobias1984 (talk) 18:04, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Tobias1984 Snipre Physikerwelt Pamputt Petermahlzahn Jibe-b Restu20 Daniel Mietchen TomT0m ArthurPSmith Mu301 Sarilho1 SR5 DavRosen Danmichaelo Ptolusque Pictogram voting comment.svg Notified participants of WikiProject Physics --Tobias1984 (talk) 18:04, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Mass[edit]

   Done. mass (P2067) (Talk and documentation)
Description mass of an object
Represents mass (Q11423)
Data type Quantity
Template parameter "mass" in several infoboxes, can be used for "weight" in some infoboxes where earth location is presumed
Domain physical object (Q223557)
Allowed values quantity with units of mass
Example Earth (Q2) → 5972370000000000000000000 kg
Proposed by --Stryn (talk) 16:23, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Comments: MER-C (talk) 13:22, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
Symbol support vote.svg Support --Paperoastro (talk) 15:00, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
Symbol support vote.svg Support πr2 (tc) 05:51, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
Symbol support vote.svg Support Seems straight forward. --Njardarlogar (talk) 21:22, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support it is necessary for infobox. Sunpriat (talk) 19:43, 6 October 2014 (UTC)
  • Is there any reason to not add this already? Regardless of whether we want more specific mass properties (below) for certain things or not, we will still need a generic mass property. - Nikki (talk) 11:42, 12 September 2015 (UTC)
    • I think it's better to start out with the specific ones. --- Jura 12:00, 12 September 2015 (UTC)
      • I asked if there's a reason to not add it. - Nikki (talk) 11:15, 13 September 2015 (UTC)
  • Qualified support'. It should be a quantity, not a number, because all the features of quantities should apply.
  • I agree with defining the value that can be assigned to a mass in accord with the Number/Quantity datatype description suggested by Joshbaumgartner (talkcontribslogs). But I read that document differently. It says "A QuantityValue represents a decimal number, together with information about the uncertainty interval of this number, and a unit of measurement." Within that document a number is only one component of a QuantityValue, the other components being the uncertainty interval and the unit of measurement. Jc3s5h (talk) 18:53, 15 September 2015 (UTC)
  • Symbol strong support vote.svg Strong support This is most basic and necessary. More specific ones may be warranted, but this baseline should be implemented now, with special cases handled downstream from it. Josh Baumgartner (talk) 18:04, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

atomic mass[edit]

   Not done
Description The atomic mass of a chemical element
Data type Number (not available yet)
Template parameter "atomic mass" in w:Template:Infobox element
Domain Terms (chemical elements)
Allowed values 1-294
Example hydrogen (Q556) - 1.01, oganesson (Q1307) - 294
Source w:List of elements, [1]
Robot and gadget jobs Helpful, but not required as this will only be used in 118 items.
Proposed by --Jakob (Scream about the things I've broken) 14:53, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
Discussion
Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment we have a general mass property pending but I don't think we can use it because that would require too many qualifiers. I don't know how the number type will work and how it will work with physical units (do we set it to kg when creating it or can the unit be chosen by the person entering the data?). We should also look into if "u" can be added as a physical unit. For atoms we should probably use different isotopic values (for hydrogen the common value would be 1.007947). We probably should think about qualifiers for estimated isotopic ratios, reservoir in which the ratio was measured, etc... For items about isotopes we could think about creating a separate property because the value is much more straight forward (H1 = 1.00782504). If we use it for atoms, isotopes, particles and molecules it could apply to a lot more items. --Tobias1984 (talk) 15:21, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment. Before to support this property, I have a question: I don't know how the future number datatype will work, but should have also a measure unit. Could be sufficient? --Paperoastro (talk) 20:07, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
I was imagining we would use atomic mass units, which are the norm for measuring atomic mass.--Jakob (Scream about the things I've broken) 21:32, 15 August 2013 (UTC)
We already have Wikidata:Property_proposal/Pending#Mass. do we really need a new property ? Snipre (talk) 07:52, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
That is precisely the reason why all votes and comments on non-existing datatypes are so irrelevant. We really don't know how they will work. If the property "mass" has kg hard-coded into it then we can't add values in "u" because there is a conversion factor as you know. I guess people could add the values in kg or maybe the user will be allowed to choose the physical unit. Again, all this is irrelevant as long as the datatype doesn't exist. And before any pending proposal is created we have to do a very thorough check. --Tobias1984 (talk) 09:07, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
I would expect that a user be able to change what units he is entering the information in, but maybe that's just a pipe dream. :) I should hope there's a user preference for the display of the units, however. --Izno (talk) 00:01, 21 August 2013 (UTC)
Symbol support vote.svg Support I think that atomic mass is sufficiently abstract from conventional mass to be granted its own property. Macadamia1472 (talk) 05:40, 16 October 2013 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support. Joe Filceolaire (talk) 15:18, 12 September 2015 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support. A general “mass” property is IMO unsuitable for this purpose because, e. g., the item hydrogen (Q556) is about hydrogen in general, not about a single hydrogen atom (there are other physical properties of hydrogen that don’t even apply to individual atoms). Thus, it would be wrong to say that 1.01 units is the mass of hydrogen (Q556). —Galaktos (talk) 14:29, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
    @Galaktos: That depends of the definition of "hydrogen" and "chemical element" you take into account. French "élément chimique" article and english "chemical element" one do not agree. For the english one, "chemical element" is a pure substance, in the french case, un "élément chimique" is a type of atom. This is actually an interwiki conflict, but in the french case, yes, we're talking of the mass of an atom. In the english one, we're not really talking of the mass of an atom, but the mass of each the substances we call "Hydrogen", so it seems closer to a molar mass (Q145623) imho ... author  TomT0m / talk page 14:40, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
      • TomT0m: From you paragraph above it is clear that using a generic mass property for this will create a real scope for misunderstandings. For me this is enough reason to have a specialist property like atomic mass. Joe Filceolaire (talk) 14:56, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
        • @Filceolaire: I don't agree. There is room for a property molar mass (Q145623) because it has a different unit, g.mol-1, but for the mass of an hydrogen atom, a countable object, there is no need of that. For substances on the other hand, this is a different question because we can have different kind of masses : mass per volume, for example, and if we refer to a class of substances we know nothing about the instances, for example if an instance of hydrogen (as a substance) is an hydrogen bottle (its content actually) then we have to know at least the volume or the pressure to know the actual mass of the content. The real way to avoid confusions is to clearly define if we're talking of a class of substances or a class of atoms, by having an item for each. An "atom mass" property will not help. author  TomT0m / talk page 15:07, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support as this is the mass of one atom of the element, not the total mass of the element. We could have a separate item 'hydrogen atom' and use property 'mass' for that, but that seems too clunky. Josh Baumgartner (talk) 18:18, 15 September 2015 (UTC)
    @Joshbaumgartner: It's not we could, it's that we WILL have. If we don't already have, see my comment. author  TomT0m / talk page 18:44, 15 September 2015 (UTC)
  • Symbol oppose vote.svg Oppose use generic mass property with appropriate unit instead. --- Jura 22:34, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
  • Symbol oppose vote.svg Oppose use mass (P2067) with unit atomic mass (Q3840065) --Pasleim (talk) 19:24, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
    I think you mean unit atomic mass unit (Q483261) Jheald (talk) 19:36, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

empty weight[edit]

   Not done
Description vehicle mass specified as constructed without fuel, cargo, or passengers
Represents mass (Q11423)
Data type Number (not available yet)
Template parameter "empty weight" in 'en:Template:Aircraft specifications'
Domain product (Q2424752)
Allowed values quantity with units of mass
Example F-16C Fighting Falcon (Q17372475) → 8570 kg
Symbol oppose vote.svg Oppose - Mass is a generic property. A qualifier can say "measured" linking to an item that says "empty". --Tobias1984 (talk) 14:01, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
Symbol support vote.svg Support 'Empty weight' is a very common specification for aircraft, not 'empty mass' or 'mass measured when empty'. Relying on qualifiers complicates data entry and retrieval, so I am supporting having discrete properties for 'empty weight', 'loaded weight', and 'maximum takeoff weight' (the three primary weights used in aviation specifications). Joshbaumgartner (talk) 05:21, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support. Mark it as <subproperty of:Mass> so that (when we get a "search (including subproperties)" tool) we can search on generic mass and pick up this. Joe Filceolaire (talk) 15:15, 12 September 2015 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support. Essential to aircrafts. Poul G (talk) 15:32, 13 September 2015 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support. Joe Filceolaire (talk) 14:36, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
  • Updated template Josh Baumgartner (talk) 18:30, 15 September 2015 (UTC)
  • Symbol oppose vote.svg Oppose can be done with generic property. --- Jura 14:05, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

maximum takeoff weight[edit]

   Not done
Description maximum weight specified for a vehicle to take off from the surface (a.k.a. gross weight, MTOW)
Represents weight (Q25288)
Data type Number (not available yet)
Template parameter "maximum takeoff weight" in en:Template:Aircraft specifications
Domain craft (Q1294755)
Allowed values quantity with unit of mass
Example F-16C Fighting Falcon (Q17372475) → 42,300 lb
Symbol oppose vote.svg Oppose - Mass is a generic property. A qualifier can say "measured" linking to an item that says "gross". --Tobias1984 (talk) 14:01, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
Symbol support vote.svg Support Same as the 'empty weight', 'maximum takeoff weight' is a standard terminology in aviation (though 'gross weight' may be commonly used in gliding). While I understand the technical scientific distinction of mass vs. weight, the broad usage of the term and the data it represents are enough to warrant it having its own distinct property available. Joshbaumgartner (talk) 05:35, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
Symbol support vote.svg Support But I would recommend renaming it to 'maximum take-off weight' if it is exclusive to aircraft. Macadamia1472 (talk) 06:48, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment English name and description updated accordingly. We should add the AKA upon property creation. Joshbaumgartner (talk) 00:28, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support. Essential to aircrafts. Poul G (talk) 15:33, 13 September 2015 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support. Joe Filceolaire (talk) 14:36, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
Updated template Josh Baumgartner (talk) 21:34, 15 September 2015 (UTC)
  • Symbol oppose vote.svg Oppose limited scope, Can be done with generic property. --- Jura 14:06, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

maximum payload weight[edit]

   Not done
Description maximum weight specified for the useful load a vehicle can carry, including passengers, cargo, and operational equipment, but not fuel and equipment necessary for basic vehicle operation
Represents payload (Q7641034)
Data type Number (not available yet)
Template parameter "payload" in en:Template:Aircraft specifications
Domain craft (Q1294755)
Allowed values quantity with unit of mass
Example C-130H Hercules (Q15411568) → 45,000 lb
Proposed by Joshbaumgartner (talk)
Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment - also applicable to any cargo carrying machinery.
Probably not applicable to any cargo carrying machinery. Payload is a specific term "carrying capacity of an aircraft or space ship, including cargo, munitions, scientific instruments or experiments. Extra fuel, when optionally carried, is also considered part of the payload." quote from Payload (air and space craft). There are weight systems for other types of transport, but the actual weights can vary between one vehicle and another (instances of), depending on other specifications such as the engine fitted. A truck which has a crane fitted can carry less due to the weight of the crane. Danrok (talk) 16:11, 22 May 2013 (UTC)
Symbol support vote.svg Support Applicable to many fields, including robotics.--Micru (talk) 22:14, 22 August 2013 (UTC)
  • I wonder if "payload" is a good way to call this, given that we also call the various subsystems as mentioned by Danrok "payloads". This property might better be named "maximum payload weight"? --Izno (talk) 23:39, 22 August 2013 (UTC)
  • Good call, I have changed the title as per your suggestion.--Micru (talk) 14:00, 26 August 2013 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support. Essential to aircrafts. Poul G (talk) 15:34, 13 September 2015 (UTC)
Symbol support vote.svg Support Danrok (talk) 10:24, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
Question - is this really specific to aircraft? What about ships, trucks, train cars? ArthurPSmith (talk) 15:26, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
In English at least they aren't typically expressed in this way - maximum gross weight is more typical for road vehicles, and for ships I'd expect it to be expressed as tonnage. However "maximum payload weight" could I think be used for spacecraft, although the infobox at w:Space Shuttle has several different maximum payload weights listed (which may be needed properites here themselves, I'd need to do more research before proposing them myself though). Thryduulf (talk: local | en.wp | en.wikt) 14:53, 15 September 2015 (UTC)
Updated template. Josh Baumgartner (talk) 00:40, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
  • Symbol oppose vote.svg Oppose, use mass instead --- Jura 14:06, 17 September 2015 (UTC)
    • @Jura1: mass (P2067) would be the weight of the vehicle itself. How would you propose to use mass for the example case? Josh Baumgartner (talk) 22:24, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
      • <bla> has quality <max. payload> mass <..> OR <bla> has part <max. payload> mass <..> OR <bla> mass <..> applies to part <max payload>. --- Jura 12:49, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
  • Symbol oppose vote.svg Oppose, cant accept non-metric units.--Kopiersperre (talk) 10:08, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

Generic or Specific: Vote here[edit]

Should we have one, a few, or many mass properties. Please vote here and mention the proposals above. --Tobias1984 (talk) 10:41, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

Properties created[edit]

Voting[edit]

  • At the moment I would like to only create the property 'mass' and let that settle for a while. --Tobias1984 (talk) 10:41, 13 September 2015 (UTC)
  • +1 --Stryn (talk) 11:12, 13 September 2015 (UTC)
Symbol support vote.svg Support Seems reasonable to me. author  TomT0m / talk page 13:31, 13 September 2015 (UTC)
I agree with Tobias1984's proposition for only one generic property. --Casper Tinan (talk) 18:58, 13 September 2015 (UTC)
Symbol support vote.svg Support makes sense -- Bene* talk 06:54, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
  • There should be a property for the mass/weight of the item, but we should not try to force everything that represents a mass to use that property. If something does not refer to the weight of the item itself (e.g. "maximum payload weight" above), it should be a different property. If something does refer to the weight of the item itself, I would prefer subproperties over repeatedly using a small set of qualifiers, but I think subproperties would need to be considered on a case by case basis. - Nikki (talk) 12:42, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
Symbol support vote.svg Support Agreed. For instance, atomic mass is the mass of a single atom, not of the element itself, so it would be wrong to use a generic mass property on the item (which represents the element, not a single atom). —Galaktos (talk) 14:35, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
  • No. We can't avoid different mass properties when different values is possible for the same item. But we don't need specific properties according to the field of items: the property for the mass of a car can be the same for the mass of a person. But the dead weight and the weight at full load of a boat or plane can't be described by an unique property. We should at least add qualifier. I think we should group the mass properties and see what is the minimal amount we can have.
If I take the above proposal, we can group:
  • atomic mass = mass of a person = Empty weight = mass -> one property
  • maximum payload weight -> one property
  • Theoretically Empty weight + Maximum payload weight is equal to Maximum takeoff weight, so no need of additional property, but I don't know the definition of maximum payload weight (include or not the fuel, the ammunition,...).
Snipre (talk) 14:06, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
  • Yes and No. I think we should have specific properties like empty weight, laden weight, etc. but I am opposed to weight of person because that is easily determined from the instance of claim. I think I this pretty well matches the other opinions above. Joe Filceolaire (talk) 14:34, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
Symbol support vote.svg Support Start with one. A limited number of widely used basic properties are going to be easiest to work with. If subproperties can be made to work reasonably then a few or even a large number of subproperties might not be a problem, but as I understand it there's not a lot of support for subproperty-based constraints right now. ArthurPSmith (talk) 14:57, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
Of course the basic property mass (P2067) is necessary and should cover most early needs, but more specialized mass-related properties ought to be created normally as they are needed and go through the proposal process. I don't see a reason to hold them up artificially. Josh Baumgartner (talk) 00:55, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
Because the property proposal process is exhausting. We discussing very specific properties in a vast variety of cases and the number of proposal wrt. weight could be huge. Giving community a little time to digest before taking a lot of decisions, maybe non consistent with each other considering the process as he is, could be a good thing. author  TomT0m / talk page 07:51, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

✓ Done I created the generic property for mass. I think it is good to let the community try out how far we can stretch the generic property and then start new discussions for more specific mass propeties. --Tobias1984 (talk) 17:38, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

volume[edit]

Description quantity of three-dimensional space
Represents volume (Q39297)
Data type Number (not available yet)
Allowed values number with unit unit of volume (Q1302471)
Example World Ocean (Q715269) → 1,332,000,000 cubic kilometre (Q4243638)
Motivation

Useful in a wide variety of situations. (This may require relabelling volume (P478) in English.) --Yair rand (talk) 23:05, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

Discussion
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support} Did we really forget having that ;) --- Jura 22:33, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

Tobias1984 Snipre Physikerwelt Pamputt Petermahlzahn Jibe-b Restu20 Daniel Mietchen TomT0m ArthurPSmith Mu301 Sarilho1 SR5 DavRosen Danmichaelo Ptolusque Pictogram voting comment.svg Notified participants of WikiProject Physics

Saehrimnir
Leyo
Snipre
Jasper Deng
Dcirovic
Walkerma
Egon Willighagen
Denise Slenter
Daniel Mietchen
Andy Mabbett
Kopiersperre
Emily Temple-Wood
Pablo Busatto (Almondega)
Nothingserious
Antony Williams (EPA)
TomT0m
Wostr
Devon Fyson
User:DePiep
User:DavRosen
Benjaminabel
99of9
Kubaello
Fractaler
Sebotic
Netha
Pictogram voting comment.svg Notified participants of WikiProject Chemistry

  • Symbol support vote.svg Support I think a generic volume property would be useful. A separate one for "crystal unit-cell volume" might be a good idea too. --Tobias1984 (talk) 12:01, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

Hepburn romanization[edit]

Description Property used as qualifier in official name (P1448), native label (P1705), name in native language (P1559), family name (P734) etc if it is presented in Japanese
Represents Hepburn romanization (Q667558)
Data type String
Template parameter title or subtitle (design specific)
Domain proper noun (or noun phrase) (Q147276) in Japanese
Allowed values any text
Example Tokyo (Q1490): 東京都 → (Hepburn romanization (Q667558)) Tōkyō-to
Motivation

Property might be useful for automatic generating readable descriptions from statements for languages using latin scripts if object name is not available in any readable script in user language. Paweł Ziemian (talk) 14:09, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

Discussion
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support, I was about to propose it after working on quite a lot of japanese items :)
by the way, could you please provide a simple online automatic converter ? I could not find one that worked : only long pages of explanations :/ --Hsarrazin (talk) 17:58, 1 August 2015 (UTC)
I would not recommend using a simple online automatic converter. Japanese writing and romanisation are not very straightforward, so it's not easy to make an accurate converter and if you don't know how Hepburn transliteration works, how will you know if the output of a converter looks correct? - Nikki (talk) 08:45, 4 August 2015 (UTC)
Thanks a lot for your answer. Did not know if it was something that existed or not. If not "automatic", you're right, better avoided :) --Hsarrazin (talk) 17:23, 7 August 2015 (UTC)
Symbol support vote.svg Support. Joe Filceolaire (talk) 22:32, 2 August 2015 (UTC)
Symbol support vote.svg Support Kharkiv07 (T) 02:34, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

Georgian national system of romanization[edit]

Description Property used as qualifier in official name (P1448), native label (P1705), name in native language (P1559), family name (P734) etc if it is presented in Georgian
Represents Georgian national system of romanization (Q1448216)
Data type String
Template parameter title or subtitle (design specific)
Domain proper noun (or noun phrase) (Q147276) in Georgian
Allowed values any text
Example Georgian (Q8108): ქართული ენა → (Georgian national system of romanization (Q1448216)) kartuli ena
Robot and gadget jobs possible, there is simple character lookup table
Motivation

Property might be useful for automatic generating readable descriptions from statements for languages using latin scripts if object name is not available in any readable script in user language. Paweł Ziemian (talk) 14:18, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

Discussion
Symbol support vote.svg Support - working with Georgian names is really painful - can you please provide an online converter (if one exists ?) --Hsarrazin (talk) 18:01, 1 August 2015 (UTC)
Symbol support vote.svg Support. Joe Filceolaire (talk) 22:31, 2 August 2015 (UTC)
Symbol support vote.svg Support. author  TomT0m / talk page 17:05, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

ISO 9[edit]

   Done. ISO 9:1995 (P2183) (Talk and documentation)
Description Property used as qualifier in official name (P1448), native label (P1705), name in native language (P1559), family name (P734) etc if it is presented in Cyrillic or Latin script. Conversion works in both directions, that is Cyrillic text can be transliterated to Latin text and Latin text can be assigned with corresponding Cyrillic text.Cyrillic text can be transliterated to corresponding Latin text.
Represents ISO 9 (Q913336)
Data type String
Template parameter title or subtitle (design specific)
Domain proper noun (or noun phrase) (Q147276) in Cyrillic or Latin script
Allowed values any text
Example Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky (Q7315): Пётр Ильич Чайковский → (ISO 9 (Q913336)) Pëtr Ilʹič Čajkovskij
Robot and gadget jobs possible, there is simple character lookup table
Motivation

Property might be useful for automatic generating readable descriptions from statements between languages with Cyrillic and Latin scripts if object name is not available in any readable script in user language. Paweł Ziemian (talk) 14:33, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

Discussion
  • I would tend to support this property. The problem I would identify is that of multilingual piece of it, however. The French for (example) "Bill" is not the same as the English for Bill, so transliterating to Cyrillic from either language is going to have a different transliteration. Also, I'm not sure why we would use it as a qualifier for claims of the Wikibase Entity type rather than only for those of the String type. --Izno (talk) 19:35, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
    • I was wrong. The conversion works only from Cyrillic to Latin script, but the process is fully reversible and language independent. Fixed. Paweł Ziemian (talk) 20:53, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support - I was about to propose this creation myself :) --Hsarrazin (talk) 18:03, 1 August 2015 (UTC)
  • There are actually multiple versions of ISO 9, I think it would make sense for us to specify which version we mean - presumably the most recent, ISO 9:1995. - Nikki (talk) 19:34, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support for ISO 9:1995 --Pasleim (talk) 19:34, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

history of topic[edit]

Description historical development of an item's topic
Represents aspect of history (Q17524420)
Data type Item
Allowed values items with instance of (P31)  aspect of history (Q17524420)
Example United States of America (Q30)history of the United States (Q131110)
Germany (Q183)history of Germany (Q122131)
Wikipedia (Q52)history of Wikipedia (Q6731)
Internet (Q75)history of the Internet (Q193315)
astronomy (Q333)history of astronomy (Q50056)

--Entbert (talk) 19:36, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Discussion
Symbol oppose vote oversat.svg Strong oppose. Please see WD:PC#Entity, article, item. The topic of these items are not articles. They are history. If someone studies history of the United States (Q131110), they are not studying a Wikimedia article. If there is a book on history of the United States (Q131110), it's not about a Wikimedia article. This mess really needs to be fixed, not perpetuated. --Yair rand (talk) 21:09, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment @Entbert: you might want to remove "Wikimedia" and "article" from the property label. Something like "History of topic" should do. --- Jura 15:45, 8 September 2015 (UTC)
Pictogram voting info.svg Info @Joshbaumgartner, Jura1: I changed the label to "history of topic". --Entbert (talk) 16:13, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
@Entbert: Sounds fine. Josh Baumgartner (talk) 22:17, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support with amended label/desc --- Jura 13:29, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support --Pasleim (talk) 19:53, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support as amended label. Joe Filceolaire (talk) 18:56, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

relative to[edit]

   Done. relative to (P2210) (Talk and documentation)
Description qualifier: what a statement quantity is relative to
Data type Item
Domain qualifier only
Example
Source external reference, Wikipedia list article, etc.
Motivation

Some properties for quantities, like elevation above sea level (P2044), are meaningful only in relation to some base value. That base value (e. g. height above sea level) can be given with this statement. (In the case of height, a more specific name for the property would be “above”.) Galaktos (talk) 20:26, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

Discussion
Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment P2044 was originally labelled “height”. It has since been changed to “elevation above sea level”, which IMO is a mistake, since there’s no such thing as a single sea level – you need the property proposed here to specify which level the value is relative to. (There are lots of national standards for elevation measuring.) —Galaktos (talk) 12:19, 12 September 2015 (UTC)
Interesting. We certainly need a property for that too (“density: 19.32 g/cm³ at 20°C”), but I’m not sure if it’s possible to phrase this property sufficiently general that it can support both use cases.
(Aside: at least the dewiki article linked to standard temperature and pressure (Q102145) describes a whole slew of standard conditions, so I’m not sure if that particular item is useful.) —Galaktos (talk) 21:03, 12 September 2015 (UTC)
@Filceolaire: On the P2044 talk page it was proposed to use determination method (P459) as a qualifier. I guess that could be used instead of this proposal, and also to record the conditions for a measurement (your proposal). Do you agree? —Galaktos (talk) 13:54, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
Actually I don't think I do. determination method (P459) is about the method or process used to make a measurement. For elevation above sealevel this would be triangulation or satellite rangefinding etc. This is independent of the sealevel reference used in displaying the elevation. so I think we need both properties. Joe Filceolaire (talk) 14:20, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
Hm, good point. And I still can’t think of a phrasing that supports “height relative to” and “measurement conditions”, so I think we need all three properties. —Galaktos (talk) 20:35, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
Can't we generalize this to something like reference point ? author  TomT0m / talk page 08:09, 15 September 2015 (UTC)
In the case of elevation above some sort of quasi-sea-level, the elevation is above a surface of some sort, which may be an ellipsoid of revolution, or a geoid (which is an irregular surface with no simple mathematical description). So "reference point" is not the right phrase. Jc3s5h (talk) 13:27, 15 September 2015 (UTC)
Jc3s5h: In most of the cases that this property is to be used with, the elevation is not measured above some quasi-sea-level. It is measured above a mark on a pier in a harbour somewhere - a datum. This is usually called the "high water mark" or something similar and was fixed back in the 1800's when they started the national geographical survey - though it may have been updated more recently. en:ordnance datum has info on the British datum and the Irish datum. Joe Filceolaire (talk) 12:19, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
A description of how this is done in the US is given at the FAQs for the National Geodetic Survey website. See the question "What are NGVD 29 and NAVD 88? How do the horizontal datums differ? Which should I use?" Sure, elevations in the US are determined by holding fixed the elevation value (around 7 metres) of the primary tidal bench mark, referenced to the new International Great Lakes Datum of 1985 local mean sea level height value, at Father Point/Rimouski, Quebec, Canada. But that point isn't assigned the value 0, and the method of relating a particular elevation to it requires following many rules associated with the datum (in this case, North American Vertical Datum of 1988). Those rules include sophisticated least-squares analysis of many observations at many points. So it is much better to say the elevation is found with respect to a particular named datum rather than a particular bench mark at the mouth of the St. Laurence River

DLI[edit]

   Done. DLI ID (P2185) (Talk and documentation)
Description This is an identifier for works in the en:Digital Library of India, India's central digital repository of books, manuscripts etc., in Indian and non-Indian languages, published in India and abroad, scanned and uploaded by libraries all over India, and maintained by the Inter-University Centre for Astronomy and Astrophysics, Pune, at http://www.dli.gov.in/ and the Indian Institute of Science, Bangalore, at http://www.dli.ernet.in/. The barcode is 13 or 14 digits, specified by the string http://dli.gov.in/cgi-bin/DBscripts/allmetainfo.cgi?barcode=XXXX or http://www.new1.dli.ernet.in/cgi-bin/DBscripts/allmetainfo.cgi?barcode=XXXX.
Represents Digital Library of India (Q3522708)
Data type String
Domain Works in authority control
Allowed values 13 or 14 digits
Example Anandamath (Q3124055)4990010044430
Source en:Digital Library of India, http://www.dli.ernet.in/, http://dli.gov.in.
Formatter URL http://dli.gov.in/cgi-bin/DBscripts/allmetainfo.cgi?barcode=$1
Motivation

Can be helpful for Wikisources of multiple languages. Hrishikes (talk) 05:56, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

Discussion
  • Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment The example yields "The requested URL was not found on this server." if one wants to see the table of contents or read the book in any most of the formats advertised. But the TIFF version seems always present (don't let the initial empty pages mislead you). Also the domain is not works but editions, so the example would have to be connected to a currently not existing item for the particular 1931 bengali edition of that work of 1882 comparable to the three items for english language editions Dawn over India (Q19795188), Abbey of Bliss (Q19795166) and s:Anandamath (Aurobindo) (no wikidata item yet). -- Gymel (talk) 10:11, 13 June 2015 (UTC)
OK, but I think we are getting sidetracked. Let us accept that DLI links, like IA, are edition-specific and not work-specific, and move on from there. Hrishikes (talk) 03:12, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
On further looking out, I see that most links are edition-specific, including OCLC, ISBN, Gutenberg etc. The versions pages in Wikisource are work-specific, which is limited to a small number of works having multiple versions; but the normal run of Wikisource links are edition-specific. So the DLI links are appropriate and helpful in authority control. Hrishikes (talk) 17:32, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

Wiki Loves Monuments ID[edit]

Description A unique ID for the monuments included in Wiki Loves Monument's national lists
Represents Wiki Loves Monuments (Q1353202)
Data type String
Template parameter external reference template (to be created) and/or Wikipedia infoboxes (depending on the nature of the WLM item)
Domain monuments included in Wiki Loves Monument's national lists
Allowed values depends on the WLM identifiers
Example Rocca di Meldola (Q3939476) → 040019806
Source Wikimedia chapters lists for WLM
Robot and gadget jobs to be determined, probably Mix 'n' Match will be used
Motivation

Wikimedia Italia is planning to upload its own list for Wiki Loves Monuments on Wikidata, in order to facilitate the composition of lists and the enrichment of monuments' items on Wikidata with data.

This is a pilot project that will interest in a first, experimental phase only a short list of sites in Emilia-Romagna (Q1263), but with time it will be extended to all Italian region.

We sincerely hope that other Wikimedia chapters/user groups will join, but first we want the experimentation to succeed. :) Sannita - not just another it.wiki sysop 10:10, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

Does this have a "formatter url"? Do these have national reference numbers as well? What is this reference used for? Will this reference be replaced by the item Qid when all these have wikdata items? Joe Filceolaire (talk) 21:49, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

@Filceolaire: Sorry for being this late in answering. About formatter urls, no, WM-IT doesn't use them (yet).
About national references numbers, unfortunately there are several reference numbers. What you probably don't know is that there is no unique national registry for monuments in Italy, but there is a plurality of registries, depending on the type of monument or area. Basically, the WLM code is used to make a connection between the Ministry's registry and the regional/local registries (which are not connected to each other).
I must also add that we plan to ulpoad also those codes. For sure, I'll ask also to create a property for the Emilia-Romagna (Q1263) official ID and the Ministry of Cultural Heritage and Activities and Tourism (Q1347047) ID in the next days, but first I need to check out all the data needed in the request.
About the last question, I'm not sure I'm following you on this point, may you please explain? Sannita - not just another it.wiki sysop 14:55, 10 September 2015 (UTC)
Sannita; Every one of these monuments will have an item here on wikidata. Each of those items will have a unique Wikidata ID - a number with a Q prefix. Why can't we use the wikidata ID instead of the WLM ID? That is the ID which will be around in the future and which will have all the database manipulation tools and goodies which will be built around wikidata.
If the answer is that the WLM ID is useful for now until a better workflow based on wikidata arrives then that is probably a good enough reason to have it - we can always delete it next year. Joe Filceolaire (talk) 14:32, 12 September 2015 (UTC)
@Filceolaire: Sorry again for being late. This is a harsh period for me with both WM-IT and work-related problems.
Yes, the answer is "the WLM ID is useful for now, until a better workflow based on wikidata arrives". My hope is that we (communities+chapters) will think and prepare such workflow in time for WLM 2016, still we need to get started somehow. ;) Sannita - not just another it.wiki sysop 23:07, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
Then Symbol support vote.svg Support I suppose. For now. Joe Filceolaire (talk) 03:24, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support if you really can't get around that .. --- Jura 10:38, 15 September 2015 (UTC)
    Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment we already have specific properties to link to other Wikimedia-related projects, this would just make it another one. --- Jura 09:07, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

SIGIC - Slovenian Music Information Center[edit]

SIGIC (person)[edit]

Description SIGIC - Slovenian Music Information Center (property for person/author)
Data type Number (not available yet)
Allowed values numerical
Example http://www.sigic.si/?mod=search&action=avtor&id=637
Formatter URL http://www.sigic.si/?mod=search&action=avtor&id=$1
Motivation

SIGIC is the main music information database in Slovenia. The main source of data is the Ministry for culture of Republic of Slovenia. A web portal was created in 2010 and renewed in 2011. URL adress uses ID numbers for three categories of objects (see examples above): avtor (author), zasedba (music group) and institucija (institution). That means that three separate SIGIC properties should be created. --Janezdrilc (talk) 13:30, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

Discussion
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support all three. Can you do the template three times with the three different property names so we can track all three properties? Joe Filceolaire (talk) 14:35, 12 September 2015 (UTC)
    • Ok, I have changed the template above and added two separate templates below, each for one category of URL. --Janezdrilc (talk) 21:48, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
    • Thank you for support. --Janezdrilc (talk) 00:47, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

SIGIC (group)[edit]

   Done. SIGIC group ID (P2165) (Talk and documentation)
Description SIGIC - Slovenian Music Information Center (property for music group)
Data type Number (not available yet)
Allowed values numerical
Example http://www.sigic.si/?mod=search&action=zasedba&id=482
Formatter URL http://www.sigic.si/?mod=search&action=zasedba&id=$1

See the debate above. --Janezdrilc (talk) 21:48, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

SIGIC (institution)[edit]

Description SIGIC - Slovenian Music Information Center (property for institution)
Data type Number (not available yet)
Allowed values numerical
Example http://www.sigic.si/?mod=search&action=institucija&id=16
Formatter URL http://www.sigic.si/?mod=search&action=institucija&id=$1

See the debate above. --Janezdrilc (talk) 21:48, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

United Nations Standard Products and Services Code (UNSPSC)[edit]

   Done. UNSPSC Code (P2167) (Talk and documentation)
Description The United Nations Standard Products and Services Code (UNSPSC) is a taxonomy of products and services for use in eCommerce. It is a four-level hierarchy coded as an eight-digit number, with an optional fifth level adding two more digits. The codeset is available in English, French, German, Spanish, Italian, Japanese, Korean, Dutch, Mandarin Chinese, Portuguese, Danish, Norwegian, Swedish, and Hungarian. PDF versions of the codeset are available for free download. A version in Microsoft Excel format is available to members, who can also request changes and suggest additions to the code.
Data type Number (not available yet)
Domain Goods & Services
Example ambulance (Q180481) → 25101703
Source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNSPSC
Robot and gadget jobs Mix N'Match welcome since there are over 50 000 items
Motivation

This provides a hierarchical, curated identifier for many articles. It also links with many systems (ranging from national procurement systems, to UN organisations…) using the system. Teolemon (talk) 21:55, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

British political IDs[edit]

PublicWhip identifier[edit]

   Done. PublicWhip ID (P2169) (Talk and documentation)
Description Identifer in the PublicWhip database of British MPs
Represents Public Whip (Q7257661)
Data type String
Template parameter |publicwhip = in en:Template:UK MP links
Domain Humans
Allowed values Valid PublicWhip identifiers
Example Tom Watson (Q263802) → Tom_Watson
Source en.Wikipedia
Formatter URL http://www.publicwhip.org.uk/mp.php?mpn=$1
Motivation

Widely used. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:10, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

Hansard (currents session) identifier[edit]

Description Identifier for a British MP in Hansard, for the current session of Parliament
Represents Hansard (Q524352)
Data type String
Template parameter |hansardcurr= in en:Template:UK MP links
Domain Humans
Allowed values Valid Hansard identifiers
Example Tom Watson (Q263802) → 4538
Source en.Wikipedia
Formatter URL http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201314/cmhansrd/cmallfiles/mps/commons_hansard_$1_home.html
Motivation

Widely used. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:13, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

This is wrong. The formatter URL given hardcodes the 2013-14 session. Also, the years 2010-12 don't follow the year format given. 82.12.99.146 14:25, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

They Work for You identifier[edit]

Description Identifer in the 'They Work for You' database of British MPs
Data type String
Template parameter |theywork= in en:Template:UK MP links
Domain Humans
Allowed values Valid They Work for You identifiers
Example Tom Watson (Q263802) → tom_watson
Source en.Wikipedia
Formatter URL http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/$1
Motivation

Widely used. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:15, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

Parliamentary record identifier[edit]

Description Parliamentary record identifier for British MPs
Data type String
Template parameter |record= in en:Template:UK MP links
Domain Humans
Allowed values Valid Parliamentary record identifiers
Example Tom Watson (Q263802) → Tom-Watson/West-Bromwich-East/517
Source en.Wikipedia
Formatter URL http://www.parliamentaryrecord.com/content/profiles/mp/$1
Motivation

Widely used. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:18, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

BBC News Democracy Live identifier[edit]

Description Identifer in the BBC News Democracy Live database of British MPs
Data type String
Template parameter |bbc= in en:Template:UK MP links
Domain Humans
Allowed values Valid BBC News Democracy Live identifiers
Example Tom Watson (Q263802) → 25228
Source en.Wikipedia
Formatter URL http://news.bbc.co.uk/democracylive/hi/representatives/profiles/$1.stm
Motivation

Widely used. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:20, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

Biblionet identifiers[edit]

BiblioNet publication identifier[edit]

Description Identifier in the BiblioNet database of book editions
Data type Number (not available yet)
Template parameter Wikipedia infobox parameters, if any; ex: "population" in en:template:infobox settlement
Domain Creative work
Allowed values 6-digit long numerical values
Example The Fellowship of the Ring (Q208002) → 15959
Format and edit filter validation 6-digit long numerical values
Source http://www.biblionet.gr
Formatter URL http://www.biblionet.gr/book/$1
Motivation

BiblioNet is the only accessible database of book editions published in Greece, created by the National Book Centre of Greece. geraki talk 07:46, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

BiblioNet author identifier[edit]

Description Identifier in the BiblioNet database of authors
Data type Number (not available yet)
Domain human
Allowed values 6-digit long numerical values
Example Constantine P. Cavafy (Q216980) → 2576
Format and edit filter validation 6-digit long numerical values
Source http://www.biblionet.gr
Formatter URL http://www.biblionet.gr/author/$1
Motivation

BiblioNet is the only accessible database of book editions published in Greece, created by the National Book Centre of Greece. Also, a database of all authors, including writers, editors, translators, illustrators, photographers etc. listed as contributors in books. -geraki talk 07:59, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

BiblioNet publisher identifier[edit]

Description Identifier in the BiblioNet database of publishers
Data type Number (not available yet)
Domain organisation
Allowed values 6-digit long numerical values
Example Kedros (Q16331089) → 21
Format and edit filter validation 6-digit long numerical values
Source http://www.biblionet.gr
Formatter URL http://www.biblionet.gr/com/$1
Motivation

BiblioNet is the only accessible database of book editions published in Greece, created by the National Book Centre of Greece. Also, a database of organisations and businesses etc. listed as publishers in books. --geraki talk 08:10, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

Identification Number of Fantastique Literature (NILF)[edit]

   Done. NILF author id (P2191) (Talk and documentation)
Description Identification Number of Fantastique Literature
Data type String
Domain human (Q5)
Example Valerio Evangelisti (Q1130896)Valerio Evangelisti
Source http://www.fanstascienza.com/catalogo/autori
Formatter URL http://www.fantascienza.com/catalogo/autori/$1
Robot and gadget jobs A bot would have to be written to match the entries
Motivation

NILF (Numero Identificativo della Letteratura Fantastica) is an identifier (for authors and works) used in the Catalogo Vegetti, an italian collaborative catalogue of fantastique literature genre.
Very similar to ISFDB catalogue, that has already its own property in wd https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P1233
Having NILF identifier on wikidata could permit to match and augment linking between the Vegetti, ISFDB, Wikipedia.

I've scraped all 12755 authors from the site (here in csv https://github.com/atomotic/catalogo-vegetti/tree/master/authors ), i should be ready to match the author name with wikidata (thinking to use wikidata_suggest or mix'n'match).

Atomotic (talk) 09:21, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

Discussion
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support. Joe Filceolaire (talk) 11:35, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
  • Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment a better name of the property could be NILF author id (identifier for a person in the Catalogo Vegetti). i think that is better to specify that is for authors only, as P1233, because Vegetti use the same identifier also for books and publishers. Atomotic (talk) 09:45, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

C-SPAN identifier of a person[edit]

Description Identifier for a person's appearances on C-SPAN
Represents C-SPAN (Q1022311)
Data type String
Template parameter en:Template:C-SPAN on en.Wikipedia
Domain people
Allowed values valid C-SPAN URL slugs
Example Vivian Schiller (Q7937768)vivianschiller]
Source C-SPAN
Formatter URL http://www.c-span.org/person/?$1
Robot and gadget jobs Possibly Mix'n'Match
Motivation

Template has 3,956 transclusions on en.WP. See en:C-SPAN. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:43, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

endangeredlanguages.com ID[edit]

Description endangeredlanguages.com is a project of Alliance for Linguistic Diversity. It provides some informations on endangered languages from all over the world
Data type String
Domain languages
Example Sirionó (Q3027953)http://www.endangeredlanguages.com/lang/2730
Motivation

endangeredlanguages.com provides a database for the endangered languages. Pamputt (talk) 12:37, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

PSS-Archi architect id[edit]

Description identifier for an architect in the PSS-archi database.
Data type String
Allowed values 1 to infinite
Example Émile-Auguste Chollat (Q20950407)483
Formatter URL http://www.pss-archi.eu/architecte/$1/
Motivation

Property:P1838 is in use for buildings id, this one can be useful for architects. JeanBono (talk) 07:59, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Discussion
Symbol support vote.svg Support looks useful, nobody opposed in the last two weeks so marking this one as ready. Multichill (talk) 19:34, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

Soccerbase manager id[edit]

Description manager Id on the Soccerbase website
Data type String
Template parameter 1 or id in en:Template:Soccerbase manager and equivalent templates for other languages
Domain human
Allowed values strings representing numbers without leading zeroes
Example Alex Ferguson (Q44980) → 48 -> http://www.soccerbase.com/managers/manager.sd?manager_id=48
Source Mainly en:Template:Soccerbase manager and equivalent templates
Formatter URL http://www.soccerbase.com/managers/manager.sd?manager_id=$1
Robot and gadget jobs Bots could be created to import this using the templates.
Motivation

Soccerbase is a database of mainly European soccer results and statistics, run by the Racing Post. It has various IDs, including for managers, so could be used for authority control, and as a useful source of information. There are templates that we could import from, and there are 17 apparently equivalent ones for different languages we could use to help verify the data quality, and cover a wide range of managers. Silverfish (talk) 15:36, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Discussion
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support Jonathan Groß (talk) 13:46, 17 September 2015 (UTC)
  • Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment only English and Scottish League managers Plagiat (talk) 11:36, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

Soccerbase player id[edit]

Description player Id on the Soccerbase website
Data type String
Template parameter 1 or id in en:Template:Soccerbase and equivalent templates for other languages
Domain human
Allowed values strings representing numbers without leading zeroes
Example David Beckham (Q10520) → 547 -> http://www.soccerbase.com/players/player.sd?player_id=547
Source Mainly en:Template:Soccerbase and equivalent templates
Formatter URL http://www.soccerbase.com/players/player.sd?player_id=$1
Robot and gadget jobs Bots could be created to import this using the templates.
Motivation

Soccerbase is a database of mainly European soccer results and statistics, run by the Racing Post. It has various IDs, including for players, so could be used for authority control, and as a useful source of information. There are templates that we could import from, and there are 31 apparently equivalent ones for different languages we could use to help verify the data quality, and cover a wide range of players. Silverfish (talk) 15:36, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

arrest date[edit]

   Not done
Description date when subject was arrested by a law enforcement agency
Represents arrest (Q1403016)
Data type Point in time
Template parameter apprehended
Domain person, maybe also organizations
Example John Wayne Gacy (Q298252) → December 21, 1978
Source external reference, Wikipedia list article, etc.
Motivation

May be very useful property for various criminals and some organizations. Qualifiers may also be added in the future such as by whom the subject was arrested (E.g. police, FBI, etc.) or which crime suspected of. Nonexyst (talk) 09:25, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Discussion
  • Symbol oppose vote.svg Oppose I don't think multiplying dates and location property for each and every type of event is a good thing. significant event (P793) can do the trick. --Casper Tinan (talk) 20:19, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
  • Symbol oppose vote.svg Oppose, per Casper Tinan. --Yair rand (talk) 22:53, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
Symbol oppose vote.svg Oppose per Casper Tinan (talkcontribslogs), use:
Josh Baumgartner (talk) 03:11, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

 Not done per above. Multichill (talk) 19:32, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

MoMA artist id[edit]

   Done. MoMA artist id (P2174) (Talk and documentation)
Description identifier assigned to an artist by the Museum of Modern Art in New York
Data type String
Domain humans who are artists
Allowed values \d+
Example Antonio M. Ruíz (Q602999)5078
Source http://www.moma.org/collection/artists/
Formatter URL http://www.moma.org/collection/artists/$1
Robot and gadget jobs Already have backlinks to Wikidata (and Wikipedia). These should be imported. Should be added to Mix'n'Match
Motivation

Nice and clean database like Smithsonian American Art Museum: person/institution thesaurus ID (P1795) & National Gallery of Victoria artist ID (P2041). This database includes backlinks to Wikidata!!! Good addition to get more coverage in the contemporary art area. Update: Forgot to mention that we already have MoMA artwork id (P2014). Multichill (talk) 11:38, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

  • Symbol support vote.svg Support - looks like more than 10,000 records so though not huge, a property seems more appropriate than using catalog. --Jane023 (talk) 11:28, 26 September 2015 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support--Oursana (talk) 10:24, 29 September 2015 (UTC)


maximum thrust[edit]

   Done. maximum thrust (P2228) (Talk and documentation)
Description maximum thrust specified for a jet engine
Data type Number (not available yet)
Template parameter w:en:Template:jetspecs : thrust
Domain jet engines
Allowed values thrust measurement
Example Westinghouse J30 (Q7988946) => maximum thrust => 1360 lbf
Robot and gadget jobs importation from articles using template 'jetspecs'
Proposed by Joshbaumgartner (talk) 02:07, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
Symbol support vote.svg Support Per 'jetspecs' infobox. Joshbaumgartner (talk) 02:07, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

Semi-major axis[edit]

Description The semi-major axis of a stable orbit.
Data type Number (units=distance)-invalid datatype (not in Module:i18n/datatype)
Template parameter en:template:Infobox planet semimajor
Domain Any astronomical object in a stable orbit (mostly planets)
Example MISSING
See also see semi-major axis (P2233)
Proposed by MER-C (talk) 13:52, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support. In my opinion could be useful to create properties for the other orbital elements, too. --Paperoastro (talk) 14:54, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
Symbol support vote.svg Support -- MichaelSchoenitzer (talk) 01:19, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
Symbol support vote.svg Support πr2 (tc) 16:37, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

distance from river mouth[edit]

Description See w:river mile
Data type number with dimension-invalid datatype (not in Module:i18n/datatype)
Domain streams
Allowed values number from 0 to length of stream
Example Fishing Creek (Q5455008) has claim tributary (P974) --> Stony Brook (Q17140282) --> invalid ID (PXXXX) --> 8.1 [unit:miles/KMs] (this is a qualifier)
Source (This for Pennsylvania streams. Warning: it's a huge PDF file)
Proposed by --Jakob (talk)
Discussion

Qualifier for P974 statements on streams. --Jakob (talk) 20:04, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

Symbol support vote.svg Support --- Jura 07:38, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
Symbol support vote.svg Support: This could be used for other items, such an each item that is a no label (Q2280652) (such as a lock (Q105731)), or is a bridge (Q12280). Is this always distance from the mouth end? --Closeapple (talk) 02:02, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
Symbol oppose vote.svg Oppose There is also "river kilometer", and I see no reason to have two independent properties for the same concept. Better to have one that represents both, and then display the wished unit.--Micru (talk) 06:51, 24 June 2014 (UTC) Symbol support vote.svg Support Better name! However it will have to wait because we don't have units yet...--Micru (talk) 14:17, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
  • @Micru: It sounds like you're just opposing the name. I've changed it. --Jakob (talk) 12:37, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

Time2wait.svg On hold To be moved to pending. Notification: Jakob, Jura, Closeapple.--Micru (talk) 08:55, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

Spatial length[edit]

   Done. length (P2043) (Talk and documentation)
Description Spatial extent for the object along the main axis, what is most commonly referred to as its length.
Represents length (Q36253)
Data type Number (not available yet)
Template parameter "length" in w:en:template:infobox lake
Domain Any object with spatial extent
Allowed values All positive one-dimensional values with a length unit
Example The length of lake Mjøsa (Q212209)
Robot and gadget jobs Bots would collect this from both articles in Wikipedia and use external datasets
Proposed by Jeblad (talk)
Discussion

This is a spatial extent for an object, not to be confused with a length along a path. Also called maximum length some places. Other proposals include the discussion at Wikidata:Property_proposal/Pending/2#length and Wikidata:Requests for comment/Dimensions and units for the quantity datatype#Length 2. I believe it is a difference between a spatial objects length along the main axis and some length. The later would use a qualifier. An alternate name could be length extent, or even spatial length extent. Jeblad (talk) 20:16, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

@Jeblad: In the development plan we have a geo-shape datatype (Wikidata:Development_plan#Geo-shape_datatype). I think it would be best to wait for that datatype. We could then either create this property or see if we can fill the database with high resolution shapes and then calculate values like: area, longest / shortest axis, northernmost point etc... -Tobias1984 (talk) 20:45, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
If the shape is known, then it should be no problem to infer this value, but having an extent of an object does not imply having a shape of the same object. Jeblad (talk) 20:53, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
I think it also depends on the resolution our geo-shapes will have. The calculated length of a lake especially with low-resolution polygons might be in conflict with what our sources say. So we probably need a property like this to input official survey data. -Tobias1984 (talk) 21:01, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
This is often referred to as one dimension i an spatial extent, where the extent itself is either an instance of a class or a typed blank node. Because we probably want to describe this in a simple way we should keep the description "flat". We could use the qualifiers to describe all the values for an "extent", but then we would have nothing for the main snak. Or, we could set it to "no value". That would be weird. Jeblad (talk) 21:16, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
Note that #Spatial extent is an alternate and more general solution. Jeblad (talk) 01:40, 30 October 2014 (UTC)
Wait until we have number with dimension datatype. Filceolaire (talk) 21:10, 31 October 2014 (UTC)
I guess this can be interpreted as the same that is described as "length" in Wikidata:Property proposal/Pending/2. It is often called the "major axis length". If we only call it length it will probably not be accurate enough. Imagine a lake with its largest extent east-west and a river flowing in from north and out to south. Then some people will say that the lakes biggest length is east-west (extent) and some north-south (direction of flow). We need something more accurate than this. Jeblad (talk) 13:50, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

Time2wait.svg On hold pending data type. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:53, 22 March 2015 (UTC)