Wikidata:Property proposal/Archive/30

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Anonymous works qualifiers

Museums and other collections have quite a few paintings for which the author is anonymous (Q4233718). To make this a bit more specific, they use qualifiers. I brought this up at Wikidata talk:WikiProject Visual arts#Anonymous works and feedback was positive. I propose to create these properties. For completeness sake I'll paste the original message.

We have anonymous (Q4233718) to be used with creator (P170). Usually we have a bit of information about this unknown author we want to include as a qualifier. The Rijksmuseum (Q190804) was so kind to share their collection manual. It's a 100+ document touching onto a lot of problems we face too, including anonymous works. I would propose to create the missing properties so we can properly qualify anonymous works. I'll list them here, between () is the Dutch original:

  • Attributed to (toegeschreven aan): object is not signed and there is a certain amount of uncertainty who the author is.
  • Workshop of (atelier van): to be used if the object was probably created by students or employees of the artist in the same workshop, possibly with help of the named artist.
  • Follower of (navolger van): unknown artists who works in the manner of the named artist.
  • Circle of (omgeving van): objects by an unknown author who lived in the same time as the named author in a similar style, possibly a follower or someone who had contact with the named artist.
  • Manner of (manier van): objects in similar style as the named author, but not necessary from the same period.
  • Forgery after (vervalsing naar): Forgeries trying to appear to be the work of the named author.
  • Possibly (mogelijk): To be used with objects with a bigger uncertainty about the author.
  • School of (School van): Unknown author with a style influenced by the known author or circle, active in the same period, but a student or follower

Multichill (talk) 19:55, 8 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Multichill: @Spinster: @Oursana: All ✓ Done:

Please check and update my labels, descriptions, and documentation. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:40, 20 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

National Inventory of Cultural Property of the Maltese Islands identifier

Descriptionidentifier of this item in the National Inventory of Cultural Property of the Maltese Islands
Data typeString
Domaincultural property (Q2065736)
Item: items with this property should also have country (P17) = Malta (Q233)
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/Property proposal/Archive/30#Item P17 = Q233, hourly updated report, SPARQL
Allowed values
Format: value must be formatted using this pattern (PCRE syntax).
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/Property proposal/Archive/30#Format, hourly updated report
ExampleĠgantija (Q216862) => 00001, Ta' Kola Windmill (Q3979901) => 00005, Ħaġar Qim (Q343053) => 00025
Source, commons:Category:Cultural_heritage_monuments_in_Malta_with_known_IDs (via commons:Template:National_Inventory_of_Cultural_Property_of_the_Maltese_Islands)

The National Inventory of Cultural Property of the Maltese Islands is a register for cultural properties in Malta (Q233). There doesn't seem to be a Wikipedia article or even a Wikidata item right now, so see for more information. There are other similar properties already (this should be added to Template:Cultural_heritage_properties if it gets created) and this information has been added by other people to images on Commons. I'd like to be able to add it to Wikidata too, so that it's more easily accessible to other people and projects. The site has a link to a PDF for each object (e.g. for Ġgantija (Q216862)) but unfortunately it seems the URLs aren't predictable. I imagine they could be linked via reference URL (P854) though. The PDFs include information such as the location, when it was built, what it was used for, a description, a map and photos. The proposed name is a bit of a mouthful, so maybe using "NICPMI identifier" would be better, although it's far less obvious what that means. - Nikki (talk) 12:17, 15 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Nikki, Filceolaire, Jura1: ✓ Done Maltese Islands National Inventory of Cultural Property ID (P1799) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:45, 24 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Wikimedia dbname/siteid

DescriptionWikimedia database identifier, unique for every project
Data typeString
Domainпроекты Wikimedia / Wikimedia projects
Allowed values[a-z_]*
ExampleLiterary Chinese Wikipedia (Q1378484) => zh_classicalwiki, German Wikivoyage (Q14325227) => dewikivoyage
Source[1], dbname parameter
Robot and gadget jobsботы использующие свойство imported from Wikimedia project (P143) / bots used imported from Wikimedia project (P143)
Proposed byIvan A. Krestinin (talk)

Tables like Wikidata:List of wikis/python are outdated, incomplete and programming-language-dependent. Storing this information directly in Q-items is more efficient way. Existing Wikimedia language code (P424) is similar (it represent language code from the same table). — Ivan A. Krestinin (talk) 18:54, 9 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

 Support. Filceolaire (talk) 13:08, 3 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Ivan A. Krestinin, Filceolaire: ✓ Done P (P) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 23:38, 24 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

==> See also #Wikimedia_database_name

Commemorative plaque

Descriptionphoto/image of plaque or inscription commemorating or mentioning the subject. For graves, use image of grave (P1442)
Data typeCommons media file
Domainpeople, organizations, events
Allowed values
Pictogram voting commons logo.svg
Link to Commons namespace “File”: this property should contain a well-formed link to an existing page on Wikimedia Commons.
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/Property proposal/Archive/30#Commons link, hourly updated report
Format: value must be formatted using this pattern (PCRE syntax).
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/Property proposal/Archive/30#Format, hourly updated report
ExampleFrederick II, Holy Roman Emperor (Q130221) = Jesi Piazza Federico II.jpg

@Jura1, Filceolaire: ✓ Done commemorative plaque image (P1801) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 09:55, 26 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]


   Done: EMLO person ID (P1802) (Talk and documentation)
DescriptionEarly Modern correspondence scholarly project by the Bodleian library that has already done much matching. Over 20K entries at the moment.
Data typeString
Domainpeople, places, organisations
Allowed values[a-f0-9-]+
ExampleChristiaan Huygens (Q39599) => e0b46100-d5cd-44d0-b02f-4a64e277241e
Formatter URL$1
Robot and gadget jobsmix'n'match


Proposed by: Magnus Manske (talk) Important, growing database of correspondence, by the famous library in Oxford. Already contains some ODNB and Wikipedia (!) links to harvest. Magnus Manske (talk) 08:21, 17 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support. Scholarly, and good potential for showing what Wikidata can do for academics. Charles Matthews (talk) 09:24, 17 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - promising potential for our biographical ecosystem, and a few thousand matched already. Andrew Gray (talk) 22:18, 24 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Magnus Manske, Charles Matthews, Andrew Gray: ✓ Done EMLO person ID (P1802). Please add a betetr label Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:14, 26 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Awesome. I'll get the first matches uploaded now. Andrew Gray (talk) 21:01, 26 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
...or not. We have a bit of a problem - the EMLO identifiers include both people and places. However, the URLs require you to state person or place - as a result, the identifier on Christiaan Huygens (Q39599) works fine, but the one on England (Q21) is broken. Any idea what we can do with this? @Magnus Manske, Charles Matthews, Pigsonthewing: Andrew Gray (talk) 21:06, 26 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
A pragmatic solution could be to use this for persons, get the catalog done for those and in the meantime put the places on ice. A second identifier would be needed, but the splitting of the catalog in two would be the main burden. Charles Matthews (talk) 21:25, 26 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
It seems the best approach. One problem is that we can't easily tell from the identifier which is and which isn't a person. I wonder if mix-and-match can look for p31 before writing any values? Or we could add person/ to the front as needed. Andrew Gray (talk) 21:29, 26 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
We've hit this problem a few times, recently. One solution, as noted above, is to have two properties. The other would be to develop more sophisticated "formatter URL" processing. The latter would take time, of course. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:36, 26 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Mix'n'match stores both the ID and the URL, so I can either prefix all IDs with "person" etc., or split all non-person ones into a new catalog and rename this one "EMLO person", and someone change the property accordingly. I tend towards the latter, but both is possible; but we should decide before we do anything. --Magnus Manske (talk) 22:30, 26 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
UPDATE Split the mix'm'match catalog into two, will import just the people. Someone request "EMLO location" property... --Magnus Manske (talk) 22:54, 26 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
That suits, me, too. Storing value like "person/e0b46100-d5cd-44d0-b02f-4a64e277241e" would be a kludge, and would cause problems if their URL stucture changed later. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:32, 27 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Masaryk University person ID

DescriptionID of a person affiliated with Masaryk University (staff, alumni, student…)
Representsučo (Q19593758)
Data typeString
Template parameterOnce available, this property's value should be shown among authority data in cs:Template:Autoritní data, as well as used in new dedicated templates to provide a uniform way to link to the person's profile (sample), CV (sample) and list of publications (sample) in the university's information system in a similar way in which currently the cs:Template:NK ČR template links to list of an author's works in the National Library's catalog.
Allowed values[1-9][0-9]*
ExampleVladimír Smékal (Q11909522) => 668
Format and edit filter validationcould be filtered to check that only digits are present (or, more strictly, that the entered value matches the above regular expression)
SourceMasaryk University Information System
Robot and gadget jobsA bot will be regularly updating cs:Template:Učo na článek with tuples of form "person's identifier – name of related article on Czech Wikipedia" from Wikidata. This template is used within wikitext-format citations produced by the university's information system, e.g. [2] (click "Wikipedie" below "Citační záznam"), because the information system knows the ID but cannot know the Wikipedia article name. In the future, once it is possible to query other entity's properties from within a Wikipedia article, this importing will become superfluous because it will be possible to look up the article name directly on Wikidata.
Proposed byBlahma (talk)

There are currently 509 articles on Czech Wikipedia alone in categories cs:Category:Absolventi Masarykovy univerzity (i.e. Masaryk University alumni) and cs:Category:Vyučující na Masarykově univerzitě (i.e. faculty staff). All of these have their identifiers in daily use in the university's Information System and beyond. Masaryk University's Information System is a robust system powering that has been powering the whole university (~40,000 people at the moment) since 1998 and the person identifier (called učo in Czech) has been in use since 1999 and as of 2015, more than 440,000 people have been given a unique number. Having this ID in Wikidata will allow for smoother displaying of links to alumni and faculty profile pages and will serve as proof that a particular person is indeed the university's alumni. Masaryk University has recently partnered with a local group of Wikimedians within cs:Wikipedie:WikiProjekt Masarykova univerzita and therefore even more articles about notable people linked to the university are expected to appear in the future. Blahma (talk) 23:26, 15 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

 Support, useful, as described in the rationale above. --Jan.Kamenicek (talk) 00:21, 16 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Support – looks useful --Bazi (talk) 00:32, 16 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Support --Jan Polák (talk) 00:53, 16 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Support --Tchoř (talk) 05:58, 16 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Support -- seems useful. JAn Dudík (talk) 06:59, 16 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Support, good idea. --07:10, 16 March 2015 (UTC), Utar (talk)
 Support I have doubts about availability and usability of the data in the extent described by proposer, still I consider useful to collect the codes with public access here. Since the codes generally are not public, I strongly recomend to indicate source, including access date. --Shlomo (talk) 07:34, 16 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I have just talked to the university's manager for internal administration and organization and we have jointly identified an approach that, in his opinion, will be in agreement with both the university's interests and the applicable law for protection of personal data. I will add the posibility for the editors or a bot to check for situations when the visibility of data linked through this identifier has changed and to hide/show those links in templates adequately. --Blahma (talk) 16:08, 16 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Support – looks useful--Frettie (talk) 11:33, 16 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Support - Dominikmatus (talk) 20:01, 16 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Blahma, Jan.Kamenicek, Bazi, Jan Polák, Tchoř, JAn Dudík:, @Utar, Shlomo, Frettie, Dominikmatus: ✓ Done Masaryk University person ID (P1803) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:52, 26 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you very much, Andy! Also thanks to all who have supported this proposal. --Blahma (talk) 23:17, 26 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Danish National Filmography ID

   Done: DNF film ID (P1804) (Talk and documentation)
DescriptionID for films in the Danish National Filmography
RepresentsDanish Film Database (Q16323348)
Data typeString
Template parameterdk-filmografi in da:Skabelon:Infoboks film
DomainFilms (Q11424)
Allowed valuesnumbers
ExampleNymphomaniac (Q3346699) => 77860
Sourceekstern reference, listeartikel på Wikipedia (enten infoboks eller kilde)
Formatter URL$1.aspx
Robot and gadget jobsPossibly
Proposed byPalnatoke (talk)

Having this ID in Wikidata will be a tremendous help in writing about Danish movies. Palnatoke (talk) 10:35, 18 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Palnatoke: Thank you. ✓ Done (with data type "string" as is usual for such things) See DNF film ID (P1804). Please go ahead and propose properties for people & companies. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:46, 26 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]


   Done: no label (P1805) (Talk and documentation)
DescriptionThe WHO INN (Word Health Organisation International Nonproprietary Names) are a drug identifier, which should also be added to all drug objects in Wikidata.
Data typeString
DomainInternational Nonproprietary Names for drugs
Allowed valuesStrings containing drug names
Examplewarfarin (Q407431) => warfarin
Robot and gadget jobsbots will fill in the respective property numbers and create new objects with this property

Motivation: For drug data which should be added to Wikidata, the available identifiers should be comprehensively covered, therefore the United Nations International Nonproprietary Names should also be added.

Proposed by: Sebotic (talk) (Add your motivation for this property here.) Sebotic (talk) 01:17, 14 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

 Support Useful identifier. Emitraka (talk) 20:48, 17 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Sebotic, Emitraka, Filceolaire: ✓ Done P1805 (P1805) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:09, 26 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

ABoK number

   Done: ABoK number (P1806) (Talk and documentation)
Descriptionknot identifier in the Ashley Book of Knots
RepresentsThe Ashley Book of Knots (Q632290)
Data typeString
Template parameter"abok_number" in en:template:infobox knot
Domainknot (Q527395)
Allowed values#1 through #1425A
Exampleclove hitch (Q1121375) => #11
SourceWikipedia infobox
Robot and gadget jobsEasily imported from Wikipedia by a bot
Proposed byFourOfCups (talk)

Surprised this doesn't exist yet. Yay first edit! FourOfCups (talk) 23:29, 17 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@FourOfCups: ✓ Done ABoK number (P1806) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:21, 26 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Great Aragonese Encyclopedia ID

DescriptionID on the Great Aragonese Encyclopedia
RepresentsGreat Aragonese Encyclopedia (Q4206943)
Data typeString
DomainAny element
Allowed values0 <= value < 13500, where 'value' is an integer
Format: value must be formatted using this pattern (PCRE syntax).
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/Property proposal/Archive/30#Format, hourly updated report
ExampleAragon (Q4040): 0
Royal Monastery of San Juan de la Peña (Q1389060): 11282
Source"" <value>
Formatter URL$1
Proposed byabián

ID on the Spanish language, Aragon-themed, Great Aragonese Encyclopedia (GEA). See Great Aragonese Encyclopedia (Q4206943) and en:Great Aragonese Encyclopedia. Thanks in advance. abián 21:32, 19 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Abián, Jura1: ✓ Done Great Aragonese Encyclopedia ID (P1807) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:48, 29 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]


   Done: choreographer (P1809) (Talk and documentation)
Descriptionperson(s) who did the choreography
Representschoreographer (Q2490358)
Data typeItem
Domainballet (Q15079786) and more
Allowed valueshuman (Q5)
ExampleFlames of Paris (Q59810) →‎ Vasili Vainonen (Q2668784)
Proposed byMarek Koudelka (talk) 15:36, 12 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

For link from a ballet page to the author of choreography. --Marek Koudelka (talk) 15:36, 12 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

named as

   Done: named as (P1810) (Talk and documentation)
Descriptioncredit name for director, actor and so on... to use like qualifier. Alias: "credited as"
Data typestring (not sure)-invalid datatype (not in Module:i18n/datatype)
Domainfilm (Q11424), short film (Q24862), television film (Q506240) and other
Allowed valuescredit name if different from real name.
ExampleGilbert M. Anderson normally accredited like "Gilbert M. 'Broncho Billy' Anderson"
Proposed byValterVB (talk)

How to manage "uncredited"? ValterVB (talk) 13:16, 21 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

 Support I see value in this qualifier, also useful for when crediting authors who use various pseudonyms, etc. I have run into this exact conundrum as well. (@ValterVB:, I took the liberty of changing the property name to credited as.) Sweet kate (talk) 20:56, 23 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment Might this be better as a generic property such as named as, where the name of the target item, at the time the claim was valid, would be specified. Companies change their names for example, e.g. RIM became Blackberry, but should be referred to as RIM if that was what it was called at the time. Essentially, this is how simple wikilink templates work in wikipedia, you can provide an alternative name to be displayed instead of the article name. Danrok (talk) 14:58, 4 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Danrok:, that broadening makes sense to me too. I support that change. Sweet kate (talk) 23:48, 4 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Danrok:, @ValterVB:, @Filceolaire:, @Sjoerddebruin:, I went ahead and re-changed the label to named as and suggested an alias of credited as. Perhaps that will remove any barrier to this property being created. Objections, anyone? Sweet kate (talk) 15:47, 31 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
OK for me. --ValterVB (talk) 19:33, 31 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

list of episodes

Descriptionlink to the article with the list of episodes for this series
Representsepisode (Q1983062)
Data typeItem
Template parameteren:template:Infobox television list_episodes
Domaintelevision series (Q5398426) and similar, i.e. radio series
Allowed valuestype of linked items (Q template or text), list or range of allowed values, string pattern...
ExampleBreaking Bad (Q1079) => list of Breaking Bad episodes (Q126004)
Sourceexternal reference, Wikipedia list article (either infobox (en:template:Infobox television) or source)
Proposed byDanrok (talk)

Motivation: To provide a relationship between these items, as is already done in other domains, e.g. discography (P358) and list of works (P1455). Possibly this property could be more generic, so list of parts rather than list of episodes? Please say if you think a generic property would be better. Danrok (talk) 14:51, 4 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

 Support --Pasleim (talk) 19:34, 21 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment Perhaps better to use list of works (P1455) (and merge discography (P358) into that)? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:04, 29 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment Using list of works (P1455) doesn't seem appropriate because it's related to a person. --Djiboun (talk) 12:30, 1 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

name in kana

   Done: name in kana (P1814) (Talk and documentation)
DescriptionThe reading of a Japanese name written in kana (hiragana and/or katakana)
Data typeString
Template parameterex: "各国語表記" ja:Template:政治家 (Japanese policians
Domain(People, places)
Allowed valuesHiragana and Katakana (=kana) characters, numbers and Latin characters if the original name has some.
ExampleJunichiro Koizumi (Q130852) => こいずみ じゅんいちろう

Motivation: (short proposal in the Japanese discussion page; disclaimer: I am not a native speaker, and have only limited skills in Japanese). Currently, the names of a Japanese people or places are only written in Kanji characters (Chinese characters) in Wikidata (in addition of kana/latin characters/numbers… if the official name use them). It is not possible to know from the name in Kanji how to read it without ambiguity. In the Japanese Wikipedia, the name in Kanji at the beginning is often/always followed by the pronunciation/reading in hiragana. Note that the names in foreign language can help, but it may not match the Japanese pronunciation (ex: 東京 is Tokyo in English, but in fact it is pronounced Tōkyō with two long o).

An alternative would be to enter these kana names as aliases of the names.

Proposed by: Fabimaru (talk) 09:47, 29 March 2015‎

 Support As qualifier for any monolingual property with value in Japanese i.e. official name (P1448), birth name (P1477) or native label (P1705) etc. There is similar pinyin transliteration (P1721) for Chinese. Paweł Ziemian (talk) 18:36, 29 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. I don't know the languages, but would it make sense to only have one property for this or multiple? It seems like it should be multiple from the range provided. --Izno (talk) 20:35, 29 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I made a request for the creation of a new Property, but in fact I think that it will not be enough (so maybe all of you may agree with the need of having the kana names, but there is not concrete proposal yet). The names of a given Wikidata item can be present at at least 3 places: the label of the item (in particular the label in Japanese), the "alias" entries of the label, and also in other properties (like official name). For these 3 cases, when there is a name in Kanji (ex: 日本=Japan) there should be one or several associated names in kana (ex: Japan = can be pronounced both nippon and nihon!) that would explain how to read it. I cannot see a single way to store the kana names for these 3 cases. Let's review these 3 cases to see all the challenges:
  • For the label, I don't know where we would store it. In a property? (ex: kana version of the label). We could store
  • For the "aliases" of the label, there can be several names (ex: Emperor Hirohito), and each of them should have a kana version explaining the pronunciation. If we add the kana as additional aliases, there will be no way to make the relationship between the Kanji name and its pronunciation(s).
  • For the properties (like "Official name"), it seems a good fit to use a qualifier (I just discovered this concept, I am not a seasoned user of Wikidata).
So I don't know how we could handle the names in the section "label". Any idea is welcome. Fabimaru (talk) 18:50, 4 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
From my experiences labels and descriptions are usable only for searching data, and nothing more. Any valuable data need to be stored in properties. BTW there is Hirohito (Q11709840), and I think it is good place to store native label (P1705), which can be extended with qualifier of this proposal type data. After reading an article about ETO (Q34479) I think, you can put two values in official name (P1448), one "裕仁" and second "昭和天皇", with qualifier start time (P580) equal to date of death (P570). When this "nama in kana" property is ready, all presented examples can be extended with new qualifier with corresponding kana values. Paweł Ziemian (talk) 19:58, 4 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
There is a special alphabet (the International Phonetic Alphabet (Q21204)) to describe the pronunciation of words in english and other languages and we don't bother to include this in wikidata - though we may in the future. Does the japanese wikipedia have names in kana for places and people outside japan?
Labels and aliases are used for searching for items. If the 'name in kana' is likely to be used as a search term then it should be included as an alias.
We have a lot of 'name' properties (a search for "P:name" will find most of them) and this property should be used as a qualifier to all of them. Filceolaire (talk) 02:39, 10 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support This property is essential data in Japanese language. In person's name or place's name, there is generally single kana. But in other concepts, there can be some kana. In Japanese Wikipedia articles, kana are always/almost wrote at the first sentence within round bracket. (P.S. I'm native Japanese speaker. But it does not mean specialist. I'm just a average speaker.)--Was a bee (talk) 19:03, 31 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Support Name in kana (読み仮名) is indispensable to dictionaries and encyclopedias in Japan. There seem to be no property to correspond with it at present. --本日晴天 (talk) 03:01, 7 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Support per 本日晴天. Kanjis (sinograms) have multiple readings, a property for kana reading will be really useful. Thibaut120094 (talk) 17:58, 7 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Support. We should also have a property to link to Commons audio files giving the pronunciation of names of people and places. Filceolaire (talk) 02:39, 10 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
This is pronunciation audio (P443) --Pasleim (talk) 08:22, 10 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Caliburn: - Sorry, but in fact I did not make it clear that I finally did not think that my initial proposal would solve anything. I think that the contributors agreed with the problem to be solved, but the way to solve it is still to be defined precisely.
The problem I was trying to solve was to store for each Japanese name (either in the label, the aliases and the properties) one or several readings (in kana characters). As mentioned above, it seems that a new qualifier would solve the problem nicely for the Properties containing a name (like "Official name"), so that would be a new proposal (I guess I should do a new proposal for that). Remaining problem: what do we do with the Japanese names stored as a label or an alias? I don't really have an answer. Would the contributors have to copy the name from the label into a property in order to be able to provide its associated reading(s) (via the new qualifier)? For example: for a temple, if a contributor wants to enter the reading, he will have to copy the name in a Property native label (P1705), and add one or several qualifiers. It seems a bit tedious, but the data model looks fine. - Fabimaru (talk) 18:53, 11 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I am afraid that you can do nothing more with label and aliases than adding more aliases, for example new aliases in kana. In fact all of them describe alternative names (spoken and/or written) of the item. Paweł Ziemian (talk) 21:19, 11 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
(NB: I thought that a special type of new Property was required for qualifiers, but it is not the case) Here is what I understand with the new type of Property (I hope it is correct, and that the Wikidata contributors will understand it the same way): if it is added as a name in kana (P1814) instance of a given Item, then it describes the Japanese label of the item. For another Property containing a name (like official name), a contributor should add a qualifier name in kana (P1814) to it. Thanks everyone for your collaboration. - Fabimaru (talk) 20:23, 12 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

RSL book's identifier

DescriptionRSL identifier for scanned publication (book, magazine, paper еtс.)
Data typeString
Domainversion, edition, or translation (Q3331189) and its descendants
Allowed values11-digits
ExampleHeine's songs (Q15919251) => 01003564117,
Стихотворения М. Л. Михайлова (Q15919422) => 01003565889,
The Kiss and Other Stories by Anton Tchekhoff (Q15839163) => 01004438677
Format and edit filter validation[0-9]{11}
Sourcesearch on RSL, s:ru:Шаблон:РГБ, s:de:Vorlage:RSL, Source parameter of commons:Template:Book
Formatter URL$1
Proposed bySergey kudryavtsev (talk)

Commons stores many scanned books from Russian State Library (RSL, Russian State Library (Q1048694)). Russian Wikisource should have way to describe such books on Wikidata. Wikidata already have Google Books ID (P675) for Google Books. -- Sergey kudryavtsev (talk) 09:25, 18 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

 Support I support this proposal. The Russian State Library is the biggest library in Russia. It has a lot of scanned books. --Averaver (talk) 19:45, 20 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Support An important identifier. --Infovarius (talk) 21:03, 21 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Sergey kudryavtsev, Averaver, Infovarius: ✓ Done, please see also RSL ID (person) (P947). --Kolja21 (talk) 02:48, 12 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

National Portrait Gallery (London) person identifier

DescriptionIdentifier for sitters and artists represented in the National Portrait Gallery, London
Data typeString
DomainPeople, couples, groups of humans
Allowed valuesalphanumeric stems
ExampleRichard I. Aaron (Q3398798) => mp78223, with prefix
Formatter URL$1
Robot and gadget jobsPossible


Proposed by: Charles Matthews (talk)

Covers both sitters and artists in a major national portrait collection, about 70,000 names. Charles Matthews (talk) 14:02, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Charles Matthews, Magnus Manske, Blackcat, Jane023: ✓ Done National Portrait Gallery (London) person ID (P1816). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:53, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]


   Done: addressee (P1817) (Talk and documentation)
DescriptionThe addressee of a letter (not necessarily the recipient, but to whom the letter was addressed)
Data typeItem
Domainletter (Q133492)
ExampleLetter from John Pelham to Jefferson Davis (Q19096701) => Jefferson Davis (Q162269)
Sourcescan file or Wikisource transcription
Robot and gadget jobsno

Motivation: A letter's addressee is a basic piece of data for a letter. We can currently put the author, but not to whom the letter was addressed.

Proposed by: Hazmat2 (talk) 23:53, 27 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Hazmat2, Emw: ✓ Done addressee (P1817). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:04, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Perfect. Thank you, Hazmat2 (talk) 14:20, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Kaiserhof ID

   Done: Kaiserhof ID (P1818) (Talk and documentation)
DescriptionPersonendatenbank der Höflinge der österreichischen Habsburger der kaiserlichen Linie und der Nebenlinien
Data typeString
Allowed values[0-9]{5}
ExampleGeorg Ludwig von Sinzendorff (Q1505273) => 10120
Formatter URL$1
Robot and gadget jobsavailable


Proposed by: Qk (talk)

@Qk, Magnus Manske: ✓ Done, Kaiserhof ID (P1818). Please check the translation of my English description. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:15, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply] personID

DescriptionThe personID at
Data typeString
Domainhuman (Q5)
Allowed valuesAn 'I' followed by 8 digits
ExampleNicolaes Tulp (Q630646) => I00077116
Format and edit filter validationI\d+{8,8}
Formatter URL$1&tree=LEO

Motivation: is a genealogy database by Leo van de Pas containing over half a million persons (source). He seems to have been working on this for about 25 years (!). Please read this interesting explanation. If Wikidata would have existed in the 1990's he would probably have been one of our biggest contributors. It would be nice to link entries in this database directly.

Proposed by: Multichill (talk) 15:30, 28 March 2015‎

Support; this looks really promising and would help us supplement our data for people in a useful way. One of the things we lack is structured relationship information on a large scale. Andrew Gray (talk) 18:56, 30 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Support --Magnus Manske (talk) 12:46, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Support --Jane023 (talk) 14:41, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Multichill, Magnus Manske, Jane023: ✓ Done, person ID (P1819). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:30, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Open Food Facts food additive slug

DescriptionThis is the Open Food Facts additive slug, which represents a food additive on Open Food Facts. A food additive can be of the form EXXX to EXXXX when it's listed by Europe, or it may not be listed by Europe. We thus have both the European name and the name of the additive in English, lower case, with hyphens. We support translations and synonyms, so we'll be able to better help enriching Wikidata and keep Open Food Fact's taxonomies more aligned with Wikidata.
Representsfood additive (Q189567)
Data typeString
Domainfood (Q2095), drink (Q40050)
Allowed valuesany items being instance of Q189567 (or "sub-instances" of those) or having a E number (P628)
Examplecarmine (Q320617) => e120-cochineal
Format and edit filter validationsmallcaps and hyphen
SourceOpen Food Facts additives ( ) which are created using a hand-curated taxonomy (, which is regularly expanded and translated, with many synonyms in many languages.
Formatter URL$1
Robot and gadget jobsNone. This will be manual linking work by Open Food Facts and Wikidata contributors.

Motivation: We're Open Food Facts contributors, we have created Wikidata:WikiProject_Food to improve food support. We have started to add Wikidata items to the Open Food Facts taxonomies, and we want to improve food references and support in Wikidata, in a linked open data way :-) --Teolemon (talk) 16:19, 27 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed by: Teolemon (talk)

@Teolemon: ✓ Done, Open Food Facts food additive ID (P1820). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:51, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Open Food Facts food category slug

DescriptionThis is the Open Food Facts food category, which represents a food category on Open Food Facts. A food category is as narrow as "Apple Pie" or as broad as "Wines", and list all instance of products. We support translations and synonyms, so we'll be able to better help enriching Wikidata and keep Open Food Fact's taxonomies more aligned with Wikidata.
Representsfood (Q2095)
Data typeString
Domainfood (Q2095), drink (Q40050)
Allowed valuesany items being instance of Q2095, Q40050 (or "sub-instances" of those)
Exampleapple juice (Q618355) => apple-juices
Format and edit filter validationsmallcaps and hyphen
SourceOpen Food Facts categories ( which are created using a hand-curated taxonomy (, which is regularly expanded based on new available products contributed by users.
Formatter URL$1
Robot and gadget jobsNone. This will be manual linking work by Open Food Facts and Wikidata contributors.

Proposed by: Teolemon (talk) 16:19, 27 March 2015

@Teolemon: ✓ Done, Open Food Facts food category ID (P1821). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:57, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

DSH object ID to identify cultural monuments in Hamburg, Germany

   Done: DSH object ID (P1822) (Talk and documentation)
DescriptionObjekt-ID to identify cultural monuments in Hamburg, Germany
Data typeString
Template parameterID in de:Vorlage:Denkmalliste Hamburg Tabellenkopf
Domaincan be used for cultural heritage monument in Germany (Q11691318)
Allowed values00000000 - 99999999, see Denkmalliste der Freien und Hansestadt Hamburg, Stand 1. September 2014] (XML; 14,2 MB). Freie und Hansestadt Hamburg, Kulturbehörde, Denkmalschutzamt, 2014 (Lizenz dl-de/by-2-0),
Examplecity hall of Altona (Q444036) => 16123 ; similar to LfDS object ID (P1708) for another federal state Hamburg
Sourcef. e. de:Liste der Kulturdenkmäler in Hamburg-Altona-Altstadt;
Robot and gadget jobspossible

Motivation: Urgently needed for cultural monuments and listings

Proposed by: Oursana (talk) 21:57, 6 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Oursana: ✓ Done DSH object ID (P1822). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:05, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]


   Done: BAnQ work ID (P1823) (Talk and documentation)
Descriptionthe unique identifier for books in the collection of Bibliothèque et Archives nationales du Québec (Q39628)
Data typeString
Allowed values/d+ ?
ExampleL’Algonquine (Q19694524) => 1986863


Proposed by: Fralambert (talk) Following the discussion in Wikidata:Bistro#comment faire ajouter 2 propriétés? by Ernest-Mtl. Will be usefull for fr-wikisource and referencing book in wikidata. Fralambert (talk) 23:29, 30 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Fralambert, Sergey kudryavtsev: ✓ Done BAnQ work ID (P1823) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:12, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

road number

   Done: road number (P1824) (Talk and documentation)
Descriptionnumber assigned to a stretch of public roadway often dependent on the type of road
Representsroad number (Q3241753)
Data typeString
Allowed valuestext, vary by country
ExampleInterstate 69 (Q94624) => I-69; A1 motorway (Q2152975) => A1; Bundesstraße 1 (Q34438) => B1; Autostrada A50 (Q789131) => A50, etc
Format and edit filter validation(sample: 7 digit number can be validated with edit filter Special:AbuseFilter/17)
Robot and gadget jobsShould or are bots or gadgets doing any task with this? Yes, adding the data


Proposed by: Romaine (talk)

In many countries the full name of a road is not the same as the abbreviation for that same road. No property in use for this yet. Romaine (talk) 13:11, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Romaine: ✓ Done road number (P1824) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:21, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Pigsonthewing: where was the consensus for the creation? --Rschen7754 01:29, 16 April 2015 (UTC)[reply] major league player ID

DescriptionMajor League Baseball player ID assigned by
Data typeString
Domainhuman (Q5) with occupation (P106) => baseball player (Q10871364)
Allowed values4 to 7 letters, followed by 2 digits
ExampleBabe Ruth (Q213812) => ruthba01
Format and edit filter validation"(a-z){4-7}\d{2}"

Motivation: To be used as a source for player information. (This is my first stab at a filter format expression, so someone more familiar with them please make sure it really works for the listed allowed values. Also, I am not sure how to do the formatter URL for this one.)

Proposed by: Josh Baumgartner (talk) 17:49, 23 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

 Support --Pasleim (talk) 21:07, 29 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Joshbaumgartner, Pasleim: ✓ Done major league player ID (P1825). We don't yet have the capability to write formatter URLs for complex cases such as this :-( Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:00, 17 April 2015 (UTC)[reply] minor league player ID

DescriptionMinor League Baseball player ID assigned by
Data typeString
Domainhuman (Q5) with occupation (P106) => baseball player (Q10871364)
Allowed values6 letters or dashes, followed by 3 digits, followed by 2 or 3 letters
ExampleBabe Ruth (Q213812) => ruth--002geo
Format and edit filter validation"(a-z|-){6}\d{3}(a-z){2-3}"
Formatter URL$1

Motivation: To be used as a source for player information. Note that a single player that played both minor and major league baseball will have both a major and minor league ID on, as they will have a page related to each career. (This is my first stab at a filter format expression, so someone more familiar with them please make sure it really works for the listed allowed values.)

Proposed by: Josh Baumgartner (talk) 18:02, 23 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Joshbaumgartner: ✓ Done minor & foreign league player ID (P1826) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:05, 17 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]


   Done: ISWC (P1827) (Talk and documentation)
DescriptionThe International Standard Musical Work Code is a unique identifier for musical works. It is adopted as international standard ISO 15707. The ISO subcommittee with responsibility for the standard is TC 46/SC 9. Each item in the registry has an ID which is accessible via this page and through other online resources. The authority also provides a unique IPI code directly "binded" to authors, composer, and other subject. These two codes could be extremely useful during an Authority control process.
RepresentsInternational Standard Musical Work Code (Q949026)
Data typeString
Template parameter"ISWC" in en:Template:Infobox_musical_composition (and could be used elsewhere in many other wikis, if adopted)
Domaincreative works, author, composer.
Allowed valuesalphanumeric string
ExampleSomeone Like You (Q166904) => Prayer in C (Q17340055) and thousand of others
Format and edit filter validationa string like T-010.879.023-3 can be validated with edit filter Special:AbuseFilter/17.
Sourceen:International Standard Musical Work Code, IPI code, The registration authority
Robot and gadget jobsvalidation
Proposed by79.40.127.123

The ISWC code is an ISO standard. It is used in more than 120 countries and provide a unique code that could be extremely useful to undoubtedly identify creative musical works. -- 22:54, 27 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

  • Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment Previous discussions about ISWC and friends are archived here and here. -- Gymel (talk) 15:41, 9 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Support We already have ISRC International Standard Recording Code which identifies a Recording, this would identify a work (the Song or Composition). Thadguidry (talk) 23:24, 15 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Support. Added "code" to prop name, since to many linked-data people ISWC is "international semantic web conference". --Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 21:33, 22 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Support but I don't agree with adding "code" to the property name. The "C" already means "code" and I don't think it makes it any clearer. If you're unaware of the musical work meaning, you'll probably just read it as "international semantic web conference code" and be none the wiser about what the property is supposed to mean. If you are aware of the musical work meaning, I can't imagine a situation where it would actually be confusing. If it really is a problem, why not copy the way ISRC (P1243) is done?
    Also: A bot could import ISWCs from MusicBrainz (Q14005) via MusicBrainz work ID (P435). - Nikki (talk) 02:16, 5 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: I have moved comments to here, from a duplicate proposal, made below, which I have also closed. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:27, 6 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

IPI Code

DescriptionThe IPI Code (Interested Parties Information) is an international unique identifier for composer, author and other relevant parties. It is linked to the ISWC code (please read the previous proposal), adopted as international standard ISO 15707. Each item in the registry has an ID which is accessible via this page and through other online resources. The authority, with associated member in more than 120 countries, provides a unique IPI code. This code could be extremely useful during an Authority control process for composer and author of creative works.
RepresentsInterested Parties Information (Q6046224)
Data typeString
Template parameteran IPI code could be used in any infobox for author and composer
Domainauthor, composer, etc.
Allowed valuesalphanumeric string (IPI code)
ExampleBrian May (Q15873) => 00087038166
Format and edit filter validation11 digit number can be validated with edit filter Special:AbuseFilter/17
SourceIPI code, The registration authority, en:International Standard Musical Work Code
Robot and gadget jobsvalidation
Proposed by79.40.127.123

The IPI code are ISO supported via the ISWC, it is unique and used all over the world. For a test, try to search "May Brian" - or any other composer you know - via this page. It could be extremely useful to undoubtedly identify author and composers. We do not currently have a similar authority control for author and composer. This code could also help to provide an unambiguous relation between a creative work and the legal holder of copyright. -- 22:54, 27 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Roud Folk Song Index

DescriptionId for a database of nearly 200,000 references to nearly 25,000 songs
RepresentsRoud Folk Song Index (Q49679)
Data typeString
Domaintraditional folk song (Q943929)
Allowed valuesnumber
ExampleCotton-Eyed Joe (Q314641) -> 942 (finds 37 songs "borne by" Cotton-Eyed Joe)
Format and edit filter validationdigits
Formatter URL$1
Robot and gadget jobsmigrate qualifier catalog code (P528) of claim catalog (P972)=Roud Folk Song Index (Q49679) to this prop (eg Cotton-Eyed Joe (Q314641))


Proposed by: Vladimir Alexiev (talk)

Currently captured as catalog code (P528) but I think we're better off having it as separate prop, as is done for most other authority identifiers. Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 09:41, 25 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

 Support - Nikki (talk) 00:46, 1 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Support Thryduulf (talk: local | en.wp | en.wikt) 14:35, 12 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

owner of

   Done: owner of (P1830) (Talk and documentation)
Descriptionentities owned by the subject
Representsproperty (Q6422240)
Data typeItem
Domainpersons, organisations
Allowed valuesanything what can be owned
ExampleJohn Cale (Q45909) > SPY Records (Q3459974)
Robot and gadget jobsInverse of owned by (P127)
Proposed byMatěj Suchánek (talk) and Marek Koudelka

It would be nice to have an inverse of owned by (P127). Matěj Suchánek (talk) 17:00, 1 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]


   Done: electorate (P1831) (Talk and documentation)
DescriptionThe number of registered voters for the place
Data typeNumber (not available yet)
Template parametercurrently none, but often use is made of |population_blank1_title="Voters", |population_blank1= value and |population_blank1_footnotes=ref in en:template:infobox settlement
NB also appears in lede and § Demographics
Domainany settlement
Allowed valuesany numeric < P1082 population
ExampleSan Remigio, Cebu – 34079 (16,830♂ + 17,249♀)
Format and edit filter validationcould be split into male and female values if available, but aggregate is good
Source (Columns I, J, K only)
Robot and gadget jobsShould or are bots or gadgets doing any task with this? (Checking other properties for consistency, collecting data, etc.) Should be < P1082 population (by date). Probably not more than 75%.


Proposed by: Unbuttered Parsnip (talk)

This is a very important demographic indicator not currently addressed. Unbuttered Parsnip (talk) 10:12, 29 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

GrassBase ID

   Done: GrassBase ID (P1832) (Talk and documentation)
DescriptionID in GrassBase - The Online World Grass Flora
Data typeString
ExampleZea mays (Q11575) => imp10873
SourceGrassBase - The Online World Grass Flora
Formatter URL$1.htm
Proposed bySuccu (talk)

GrassBase is a database curated by Kew Gardens (Q188617). It contains the descripion of nearly 11,000 species and related genera. Succu (talk) 10:43, 28 March 2015 (UTC) 99of9
Achim Raschka (talk)
Andrawaag (talk)
Brya (talk)
CanadianCodhead (talk)
Dan Koehl (talk)
Daniel Mietchen (talk)
Eewilson (talk)
FelixReimann (talk)
Hyperik (talk)
Infomuse (talk)
Infovarius (talk)
Jean-Marc Vanel
Joel Sachs
Klortho (talk)
Lymantria (talk)
Magnefl (talk)
Mellis (talk)
Michael Goodyear
Mr. Fulano (talk)
Myrmoteras (talk)
Nis Jørgensen
Peter Coxhead
Andy Mabbett (talk)
Prot D
Rod Page
Strobilomyces (talk)
Stuchka (talk)
Succu (talk)
TiagoLubiana (talk)
Tommy Kronkvist (talk)
Totodu74 (talk)
Tris T7 TT me
William Avery
Mike Krüger
GoEThe (talk)
The Anome
Pictogram voting comment.svg Notified participants of WikiProject Taxonomy[reply]

 Support --Tobias1984 (talk) 13:02, 28 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Support -- Brya (talk) 17:34, 28 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Support -- Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:55, 28 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Support --Daniel Mietchen (talk) 00:55, 29 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

number of registered users/contributors

Descriptionnumber of registered users/contributors of website or book edition (if there're many)
Data typeNumber (not available yet)
Allowed valuesnumber>0
ExampleWikidata (Q2013) => 5,179,268
Proposed byGZWDer (talk)

GZWDer (talk) 10:06, 21 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

 Support looks good, especially for cases where listing all contributors is not practical (i.e. for Wikidata) Ajraddatz (talk) 22:03, 18 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

draft pick number

Descriptionoverall pick number with which a player is selected in a sports draft
Data typeString
Domainhuman (Q5) who has been selected in a draft (Q31603)
Allowed valuespositive integers
ExampleBen Francisco (Q2895431) => significant event (P793) => 2002 Major League Baseball draft (Q4600249) => draft pick number => 154
SourceExamples: baseball, basketball, ice hockey
Robot and gadget jobsimport from official league draft records?

Motivation: Useful information for player histories.

Proposed by: Josh Baumgartner (talk) 19:52, 20 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Joshbaumgartner, Filceolaire, Pasleim: ✓ Done draft pick number (P1836) (datatype: string) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:15, 19 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Joshbaumgartner, Pigsonthewing, Pasleim:Oh Dear. I just noticed this has datatype string. This is a case where comparing the draft pick number for one person with that for another person does actually tell you something useful so it should be number. Sorting strings means 18 comes between 179 and 180 while sorting numbers puts 18 between 17 and 19. Do you agree the datatype should change? Filceolaire (talk) 07:02, 22 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Filceolaire: I agree 100% Josh Baumgartner (talk) 16:02, 22 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Gaoloumi ID

   Done: Gaoloumi ID (P1837) (Talk and documentation)
DescriptionID of a building in the the gaoloumi database
Data typeString
ExampleMaxdo Centre (Q3306015) -> 760
Formatter URL$1

Motivation: I sometimes encounter links from fr.wikipedia to this Chinese database. While not oustanding, quality seems to be good enough. I need this property so that free texts links can be removed from Wikipedia in favor of a better-formatted Wikidata-based system using fr:Modèle:Bases archi--Zolo (talk) 18:08, 22 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • It's just skyscrapers apparently (the name actually means "skyscraper fans"). I don't think it has outstanding value, but it does no harm either, and it is used in Wikipedia. --Zolo (talk) 10:46, 27 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Zolo: ✓ Done Gaoloumi ID (P1837) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:46, 19 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

PSS-archi ID

   Done: PSS-archi ID (P1838) (Talk and documentation)
Data typeString
ExamplePalais de Flore (Q16510023) -> FR-69123-557
Format and edit filter validationformat = <country code>-<post code>-<building id>

Motivation: Same reasoning as for Gaoloumi above: a collaborative website that is sometimes linked from fr.wikipedia. In this case, the database is related to a more general website (mostly a forum). The database is mostly about France (41k buildings), with many buildings that are hard to find elsewhere. The quality appears to be decent. Zolo (talk) 12:46, 27 March 2015

@Zolo: ✓ Done PSS-archi ID (P1838) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:52, 19 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Federal Election Commission identifier

DescriptionIdentifier assigned by the Federal Election Commission for federal candidates, parties, and other committees
Data typeString
Domainpersons, organizations
Allowed valuesstring pattern (mixed capital letters and digits)
ExampleSteny Hoyer (Q516515) => H2MD05155 (Source)
SourceSunlight Foundation Congress API. Documentation. I can include citations in the form of API queries.
Robot and gadget jobsA bot could feed off of the aforementioned Congress API (or similar APIs) to populate this value. For now I may just do it manually.
Proposed byHarej (talk)

Identifiers seem to be popular on Wikidata, and the Federal Election Commission (Q2705072) (FEC) identifier would be a good one to include. The FEC is responsible for regulating campaign spending of (federal) political candidates, political parties, and other committees involved in federal election processes. As part of this, the people and entities regulated by the FEC submit quarterly/annual campaign disclosure reports, detailing their revenue, expenditures, and sources of political contributions. This information is a valuable part of U.S. political discourse—people are interested in knowing how much it costs to "buy" a seat and who is "buying" politicians. Having each member of Congress (and in the future, former members and also notable PACs / political parties) associated with their FEC ID could be worthwhile. The FEC ID number is also used by the Sunlight Foundation in its myriad APIs, which are also highly reliable and valuable sources of information for Wikimedia projects. (Note that I have opted for just "Federal Election Commission" and not "U.S. Federal Election Commission," since it appears this is the only agency in the world with that name). Harej (talk) 17:59, 20 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • Pictogram voting question.svg Question Harej, how can this be put to practical use in our projects? Can it be used in an URL to link to a useful page? I'm not saying an API value is meritless, I'm sure it can be used, but is it accessible enough? Jon Harald Søby (talk) 18:44, 20 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Support. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:54, 23 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Support -- SERutherford (talk) 22:04, 4 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Harej, Jon Harald Søby, SERutherford: ✓ Done US Federal Election Commission ID (P1839) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:59, 19 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Swedish district code

Descriptionnew code for new administrative entity from 2016
Data typeString
Template parameterdistriktskod in sv:Mall:Infobox folkbokföringsdistrikt Sverige
Domaininstance of (P31):registration district in Sweden (Q18333556)
Allowed valuessix digits
Example101345 => Lund Cathedral District (Q19688593)
Format and edit filter validation(1-3)(01-25)(ddd)
Sourceexternal reference, Wikipedia articles, etc.
Robot and gadget jobsimport from the templates is a good idea.


Proposed by: Innocent bystander (talk)

Code for new type of administrative entity in Sweden from 2016. Articles are being created by @Yger: at the moment. Some of the articles will be merged with the articles about the civil parish with (almost) the same Geoinfo and most often the same name. Mainly articles about districts which does not cover any corresponding civil parishes will be created. (Mainly around older cities.) I am not sure that public reports from Statistics Sweden are published yet, but they will. -- Innocent bystander (talk) 13:25, 27 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  •  Support --- Jura 17:54, 18 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

✓ Done Swedish district code (P1841) @Innocent bystander, Yger, Jura: Josh Baumgartner (talk) 23:10, 20 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

GAMEO identifier

DescriptionAuthority control identifier for Global Anabaptist Mennonite Encyclopedia Online
RepresentsGlobal Anabaptist Mennonite Encyclopedia Online (Q1531559)
Data typeString
Template parametergameo
Allowed valuesvalid GAMEO URL slug
ExampleJan Caspar Philips (Q4484167) => Philips, Jan Caspar (ca. 1700-1775)
Sourceexternal reference, Wikipedia list article, etc.
Formatter URL$1
Robot and gadget jobsMix-n-Match

Motivation: GAMEO is a Mennonite history database with ~20K entries.

Proposed by: Jane023 (talk) 14:27, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Magnus Manske, Charles Matthews: ✓ Done Global Anabaptist Mennonite Encyclopedia Online ID (P1842) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:25, 22 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

common name

Descriptioncommon name of a taxon
Representscommon name (Q502895)
Data typeMonolingual text
ExampleHouse Sparrow (Q14683) => Haussperling (de), House Sparrow (en), Домовый воробей (ru), 家麻雀 (zh) (Source: Avibase)
Sourceliterature, curated databases
Proposed by--Succu (talk) 15:38, 13 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I think it's time to include vernacular names. --Succu (talk) 15:38, 13 March 2015 (UTC) 99of9
Achim Raschka (talk)
Andrawaag (talk)
Brya (talk)
CanadianCodhead (talk)
Dan Koehl (talk)
Daniel Mietchen (talk)
Eewilson (talk)
FelixReimann (talk)
Hyperik (talk)
Infomuse (talk)
Infovarius (talk)
Jean-Marc Vanel
Joel Sachs
Klortho (talk)
Lymantria (talk)
Magnefl (talk)
Mellis (talk)
Michael Goodyear
Mr. Fulano (talk)
Myrmoteras (talk)
Nis Jørgensen
Peter Coxhead
Andy Mabbett (talk)
Prot D
Rod Page
Strobilomyces (talk)
Stuchka (talk)
Succu (talk)
TiagoLubiana (talk)
Tommy Kronkvist (talk)
Totodu74 (talk)
Tris T7 TT me
William Avery
Mike Krüger
GoEThe (talk)
The Anome
Pictogram voting comment.svg Notified participants of WikiProject Taxonomy[reply]

 Support I support the property. I am just not sure how the Wiktionary-integration will work and whether this needs to be an item-datatype of monolingual-text. Will Wiktionary have an item for "Haussperling" for example (and potentially a page in each language, because Wiktionary also includes foreign words)? --Tobias1984 (talk) 15:47, 13 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Support I assume you mean common names, more important than vernacular names. Also, there are lots more vernacular names than there are common names. In what sequence are these languages going to be listed? - Brya (talk) 18:41, 13 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Brya, Succu: We will even have multiple labels in each language, so the lists will get long and will need qualifiers. One of the weirder examples might be: strawberries (Q745): Common name -> "Ananas" (Qualifier: used in -> Eastern Austria). --Tobias1984 (talk) 18:54, 13 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, this could become a long list. Adansonia digitata (Q158742) has a lot of local names. Reliable sources are important. --Succu (talk) 19:00, 13 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed. This is why the distinction between common names and vernacular names is important. A well known example is Bellis perennis in the Netherlands: it has one (official) common name, but if everything is counted that ever was used this will run up to (IIRC) something like two hundred 'names'. In at least some countries (I don't know how many, but it is not rare) there are official common names for plants. For example, the USDA Plants site (see above) has official standardized US common names for plants. When botanists were inventorying in the Far East they quickly gave up on trying to record vernacular names, there were so many it was obviously hopeless. - Brya (talk) 06:08, 14 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
BTW: Wikispecies has a Vernacular names section. --Succu (talk) 10:48, 18 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Support I'm also worried about how such things will be affected by Wiktionary integration, but that's still quite some time away, and the property would be useful well before that. --Daniel Mietchen (talk) 23:06, 13 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Eventually the Labels for these should be changed to their common names, at least for those languages spoken in the range of the creature, with vernacular names listed in the aliases. I can see there is also a case for these to be recorded more systematically using statements, so qualifiers can be added for range, end date etc.  Support. Filceolaire (talk) 17:44, 20 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Support These common names should already exist in a wikipedia article or wikispecies entry, or else it would be to easy to vandalize the wikidats.

Bfpage (talk) 17:54, 21 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Tobias1984, Brya, Succu, Daniel Mietchen, Filceolaire, Bfpage: ✓ Done taxon common name (P1843) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:08, 22 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

HathiTrust id

   Done: HathiTrust ID (P1844) (Talk and documentation)
DescriptionNumeric ID from the HathiTrust Digital library, which is a large-scale collaborative repository of digital content from research libraries including content digitized via the Google Books project and Internet Archive digitization initiatives, as well as content digitized locally by libraries. For more information see w:HathiTrust. Each item in the registry has an ID and a stable URL (see below), so it would be easy to link the item on Wikidata to the resource on HathiTrust.
RepresentsHathiTrust Catalogue (Q19348674)
Data typeString
Template parametercan be linked in wikipedia through w:Template:GBLinks
Domainversion, edition, or translation (Q3331189), eg of book (Q571), opera (Q1344)
Allowed values9 digits number
Formatter URL$1
Proposed byNastoshka (talk)

It could be an important reference for books and creative works, especially for those transcribed in wikisource (just as Property:P724 or Property:P243). This library contains all books in Google Books and IA, plus some others from local libraries (this is very important for Wikisource project). Copyright-free books can also be dowloaded, read or consulted with their pretty tool. Furthermore for some books also an OCR text is provided -- Nastoshka (talk) 23:05, 16 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

 Support Every AUTH prop of a significant repository is welcome :-)

@Nastoshka: see proposal edits.
"Represents HathiTrust (Q3128305)" is wrong: make an item "HathiTrust Catalog" and put that in "subject item" above. See Union List of Artist Names (Q2494649) for example props to use.
Changed "indicator" to "id" since that's most often used here; please change "it" name if you agree. --Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 21:29, 22 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Nastoshka: Do Hathi have other catalogs, eg of People? If so, change to "HathiTrust work id"
@Vladimir Alexiev: thanks for all advices. This is the first time I propose a new prop :-). I've changed also the italian description using id. Now I'm going to create the new item. As far I know HathiTrust is used only for works and not for people (even though you can search a work using the field "author" and then you get a list with all works, that author has written) --Nastoshka(Gesagt - getan! Al vostro servizio!) 23:05, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
@Vladimir Alexiev: ✓ Done. Also the new item HathiTrust Catalogue (Q19348674) has been created.--Nastoshka(Gesagt - getan! Al vostro servizio!) 23:16, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment IIRC Hathi Trust is striclty concerned with version, edition, or translation (Q3331189), not works and the proposed property is comparable with the subset of suffix-M values for Open Library ID (P648). -- Gymel (talk) 07:45, 23 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Gymel: I understand and agree but what do you suggest? I'm sorry but I do not have so much experience in proposing new props. --Nastoshka(Gesagt - getan! Al vostro servizio!) 23:32, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
@Nastoshka: Well, 1st to note that the proposed property seems not to be about works (but on the other hand about the same things most wikisource projects are dealing with) and 2nd I hoped that there are some relations or mappings between Hathi Trust and the Open Library someone could explain to us here. -- Gymel (talk) 13:38, 24 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed, it is more about editions (so different items for each edition of a work). Difference and similarities between HathiTrust and others similar libraries can be found here --Nastoshka(Gesagt - getan! Al vostro servizio!) 21:44, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
HathiTrust Catalogue (Q19348674): fixed name, fixed website (prev one did not resolve), added "described at URL" with the Rumyantsev paper cited above --Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 12:41, 4 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Vladimir Alexiev: thanks! --Nastoshka(Gesagt - getan! Al vostro servizio!) 20:04, 5 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Support -- SERutherford (talk) 22:06, 4 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Nastoshka, Vladimir Alexiev, Gymel, SERutherford: ✓ Done --Kolja21 (talk) 18:05, 22 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

anti-virus alias

Descriptionalias issued by anti-virus companies to classify malware
Data typeString
Template parameteralias in Template:Infobox computer virus
Allowed valuesVarious
ExampleConficker (Q474330) => W32/Conficker.worm <issuer> (see property below) McAfee, LLC (Q267313)
Sourceexternal reference

Proposed by: --George (Talk · Contribs · CentralAuth · Log)

Would make a very useful property. This would be to further annotate the aliases, rather than having a bunch of aliases in the "aliases" section with no explanation. --George (Talk · Contribs · CentralAuth · Log) 08:49, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Caliburn: ✓ Done anti-virus alias (P1845) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:14, 24 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

distribution map

Descriptiondistribution of item on the mapped area. For taxons use taxon range map image (P181).
Data typeItem
Allowed valuesdistribution maps
ExampleRoberts (Q1646493) => File:Roberts.png

@Jura1, Ivan A. Krestinin, Emw: ✓ Done, as datatype = "commons media file", distribution map (P1846) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:43, 24 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Nasjonalbiblioteket photographer ID

DescriptionIdentifier used by the Nasjonalbiblioteket (Norwegian National Library) for photographers
Data typeString
DomainPerson (not every entry in the category is a photographer)
ExampleAnders Beer Wilse (Q144339) => Nasjonalbiblioteket photographer ID => 3050 => source: reference URL (P854) =>
Format and edit filter validation/\d+/
SourceUnfortunately the National library doesn't make things easy, even if they aspire to make an authority file. Each photographer in the category has an entry for and that is our catalog for ids.
Formatter URL$1
Robot and gadget jobsManual, after initial automatic upload

A lot of these photographers are the same as the ones listed in the DiMu service, that is a lot of the photograpers of historic images we are using from Norway. About 1000 of the photograpers are listed in Wikipedia. I have not verified the number, it is from a discussion some time ago. The category holds slightly more than 5000 entries.

Proposed by: Jeblad (talk) 00:01, 15 April 2015‎

@Jeblad: ✓ Done Nasjonalbiblioteket photographer ID (P1847) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:51, 24 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]


DescriptionCode from the Inventaire national du patrimoine naturel (Q3153864).
Data typeString
DomainPlaces: protected areas of France. Applies to subclasses of protected area of France (Q2828309), zone naturelle d'intérêt écologique, faunistique et floristique (Q16040909) and probably some more kinds of areas that do not exist in Wikidata yet.
Allowed valuesregex: FR\d{7}
ExampleArmorique Regional Natural Park (Q1343332) => "FR8000005", Iroise National Nature Reserve (Q2385242) => "FR3600108"
SourceINPN catalog: search the "Protected areas" program. Most articles about protected areas in French Wikipedia (Q8447) have a link to the INPN catalog, though it doesn't appear in infoboxes.
Formatter URL$1

Inventaire national du patrimoine naturel (Q3153864) is the reference catalog for protected areas of France. It is maintained by Muséum national d'histoire naturelle (Q838691).

It would be great to have this property created before Wiki Loves Earth 2015 begins, in May.

Proposé par: EdouardHue (talk) 06:55, 15 April 2015‎

  •  Support EdouardHue (talk) 06:55, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Support INPN catalog is the most updated and the most complete about protected areas in France.--Yodaspirine (talk) 09:21, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Support obviously, VIGNERON (talk) 09:24, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Support Probably the best national inventory on natural heritage. --Fralambert (talk) 22:47, 21 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@EdouardHue, Yodaspirine, VIGNERON, Fralambert: ✓ Done protected areas INPN Code (P1848) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:55, 24 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

SSR WrittenForm ID

DescriptionThe numeric ID for the written form of a place name, for the purpose of giving that place an official name. A place has one id for the location itself, and then one for each of the written forms.
Data typeString
Domainofficial name
Allowed valuesnumber, /\d+/ (incrementing number, up to about 7 digits)
Format and edit filter validation/\d+/ (incrementing number, up to about 7 digits, see Special:AbuseFilter/17)
Source (Glittertinden)
Robot and gadget jobsWill be uploaded from a prepared dataset

Motivation: This is the id used by Sentralt Stedsnavnregister (SSR) in Norway for tracking the location's names. One location can have several names, and this id will be used as a qualifier for each one of them. Some background at Sentralt stadnamnregister (SSR). This property proposal could have been placed under Wikidata:Property proposal/Authority control as it is as much a matter of authority control on the place names and their ids.

The fields for status and use value has not been proposed to materialize as those fields are process descriptors. In Wikidata I assume we only want to list the positive outcomes from the process, that is the names that are valid and official.

Proposed by: Jeblad (talk)

This id is the second one that will make it possible to track the locations and place names used by the real authority on such place names in Norway. It is possible to only source each of the written forms, link them to the "faktaark", and then only keep the "SSR ID" for inference purposes. That could be good enough. Jeblad (talk) 13:13, 7 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Jeblad Can you complete the example - i.e. what are the IDs for the various names of Q397876? Filceolaire (talk) 20:48, 10 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Filceolaire Added some examples by reusing a previous simplified notation. Note the use of authority (P797) in Glittertind (Q397876) for the name of the executive authority. I think we need some qualifiers for status changes, but those should be more general. I think something like a qualifier "Official name status" a "Official name status change date", both covering the time from the change until the next listed valid entry. This could although be even more general. "Status" and "Status change date" perhaps. Could be that something like that is already defined, I haven't checked. Jeblad (talk) 23:16, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Jeblad, Filceolaire: ✓ Done SSR WrittenForm ID (P1849). It might be worth asking SSR to provide URLs for these. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:37, 24 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]


DescriptionThe numeric ID for a place, for the purpose of giving that place an official name. A place has one id for the location itself, and then one for each of the written forms.
Data typeString
Allowed valuesnumber, /\d+/ (incrementing number, up to about 6 digits)
ExampleGlittertind (Q397876) (only the official name is added)
Format and edit filter validation/\d+/ (incrementing number, up to about 6 digits, see Special:AbuseFilter/17)
Source (Glittertinden)
Formatter URL – MISSING "$1"
Robot and gadget jobsWill be uploaded from a prepared dataset

Motivation: This is the id used by Sentralt Stedsnavnregister (SSR) in Norway for tracking the named locations. Some background at Sentralt stadnamnregister (SSR). This property proposal could have been placed under Wikidata:Property proposal/Authority control as it is as much a matter of authority control on the place ids.

Proposed by: Jeblad (talk)

This id is the first one that will make it possible to track the locations and place names used by the real authority on such place names in Norway. Jeblad (talk) 12:58, 7 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  •  Support but I have changed the datatype to string (I'm assuming subtracting one value from another doesn't give us meaningful info). Filceolaire (talk) 20:42, 10 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Added an example. This is the ssrID in the xml file. [3] The hierarchy is Object, Names, and Written forms. The object is the geological formation. The names can be different, for example as a mountain is seen from different valleys. Those names can in addition have different names. Jeblad (talk) 23:29, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Jeblad, Filceolaire: ✓ Done SSR place name number (P1850) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:45, 24 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

input set

   Done: input set (P1851) (Talk and documentation)
Descriptiona superset of the domain of a function or relation. This is usually much simpler than definition domain (P1568)
Representsinput set (Q18720436)
Data typeItem
Domaininstances of mapping (Q370502), function (Q11348), morphism (Q1948412), binary relation (Q130901)
Allowed valuesinstances of set (Q36161), class (Q217594)
Exampletangent (Q1129196)real number (Q12916)
Proposed byPetr Matas

For motivation see Property talk:P1568#Domain or input set? Petr Matas 15:05, 8 January 2015 (UTC) Opensofias
Arthur Rubin
Nomen ad hoc
The Anome
Daniel Mietchen
John Samuel
Jeremy Dover
Toni 001
Pictogram voting comment.svg Notified participants of WikiProject Mathematics[reply]

 Support --Tobias1984 (talk) 15:15, 8 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Support. Danneks (talk) 16:16, 8 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Support. TomT0m (talk) 18:42, 10 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Petr Matas, Tobias1984, Danneks, TomT0m: ✓ Done input set (P1851) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:18, 25 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Perry Index

   Done: Perry Index (P1852) (Talk and documentation)
DescriptionThe item's value on the Perry Index primarily for fables attributed to Aesop
RepresentsPerry Index (Q7169810)
Data typeString
Domainfable (Q693)
Allowed values
Format: value must be formatted using this pattern (PCRE syntax).
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/Property proposal/Archive/30#Format, hourly updated report
ExampleThe Ant and the Grasshopper (Q1211051) => 373
Formatter URL$1.htm


Proposed by: Gabbe (talk)

This property could be useful for keeping track of similar fables which might (or might not) have several articles associated with them across the different language Wikipedias. Gabbe (talk) 10:36, 4 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Gabbe: ✓ Done Perry Index (P1852) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:20, 25 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Blood type

   Done: blood type (P1853) (Talk and documentation)
Representsblood type (Q47657)
Data typeItem
Allowed valuesA (Q19831453), B (Q19831454), AB (Q19831455), O (Q19831451)
ExampleAkira Ishida (Q418736) => O (Q19831451)

Motivation: I think blood type would be suitable property for people. In Western countries, it might be not relevant and hard to figure out, however, in Asia, nearly all celebrities feature the blood type on their official websites. --Christian140 (talk) 17:52, 19 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed by: Christian140 (talk)

Pasleim just told me that this proposal was already made before: Wikidata:Property proposal/Archive/22#Blood_Type. Still, I think it is useful. So, the US servers are a problem? But the some Asian language wikipedias already use blood type. --Christian140 (talk) 18:03, 19 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Oppose per @Snipre: in Wikidata:Property proposal/Archive/10#Blood Type and Wikidata:Property proposal/Archive/22#Blood Type. Visite fortuitement prolongée (talk) 19:13, 19 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pictogram voting question.svg Question: Why is it that Japanese Wikipedia can keep their blood type data while Wikidata cannot host these data? Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't they both hosted on US servers? —Wylve (talk) 01:19, 20 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • Given that the Japanese Wikipedia already has plenty of blood type data, I doubt that adding the data would be legally problematic, but IANAL. (Pinging @Micru, who commented on the earlier proposal that adding the property could have legal repercussions.) --Yair rand (talk) 01:28, 20 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    You can say that only for Japanese people, but the situation can be completely different in another country meaning that if one person complains in Germany about this kind of data, we have a problem for all cases of Germans people and perhaps even from Europe. That's the problem of different laws applying to the same system. Take the example of Google: the Europe law requires the possibility for persons to ask the deletion of some data. Google has to do it even if the servers were located in US and if no US law was requiring similar option. Snipre (talk) 13:27, 20 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • @Wylve: Because no American complains until now. My problem with that property is the use according to certain legal conditions and so no applicable to most of the items concerned by the property. This means more maintenance work for a small application. For me we can proceed with this property only with a comment from legal team of the WMF to ensure the minimum of problems in the future. Snipre (talk) 13:48, 20 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Oppose Oppose unless a comment form the legal team of WMF says no risk. Snipre (talk) 13:48, 20 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Oppose I'm pretty sure this will be a problem in the US, and I suspect even more problematic in Europe. So I concur with @Snipre just above: unless the legal team says there's no risk, I wouldn't want to go there. (PS: For my own education, would someone mind telling me why this is commonly publicized in East Asia, and why people care? I'm not saying it's wrong, only that it's a cultural issue not within my experience.) StevenJ81 (talk) 14:50, 20 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@StevenJ81: Maybe you can find your answer in the wikipedia article en:Blood types in Japanese culture . Btw: "Facebook in many Asian countries allows users to include their blood type in their profile." (Quote from the beforementioned article) (Maybe additionally this recent article I just want to add, if you ever played a Japanese or Korean video game, read a manga or saw an anime series, you will see that there is blood type for all characters. And most East Asian stars show there blood type on there websites. --Christian140 (talk) 17:46, 20 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The problem is that we can't restrict properties to certain domains. If we create this property, everyone can add it to everyone's items without approval and independent of their nationality. --Pasleim (talk) 18:14, 20 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Symbol oppose vote oversat.svg Strong oppose Christian, thank you for your reply. That said, it makes me less, rather than more, interested in supporting this. And I don't really see any possible way that it can be restricted to ja or ko once it's here. StevenJ81 (talk) 13:50, 21 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Support for usage in ja Wikipedia. --- Jura 18:12, 20 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • GA candidate.svg Weak support (despite earlier thread). Seems to be a cultural issue. From my (Western, specifically: Swiss) point of view, the idea would seem almost ludicrous: I can think of no person except some of my closest family members where I'd have the faintest idea about their blood type, and it's generally not the kind of data that gets published here. However, it seems to be different in some Asian countries. Apparently, e.g. the Japanese Wikipedia already lists blood types as widely known and seemingly uncontroversial data. It seems it would make sense for Japanese (and Korean and...?) people to store this data on Wikidata, too. But as Pasleim says: "The problem is that we can't restrict properties to certain domain". Not technically, at least. But maybe it could be restricted by guideline? E.g.: Only add this property to items for Asian people where the blood type is publicly known. Gestumblindi (talk) 22:41, 20 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong  Support. No reason not to include this if it is well sourced - such as being listed on the persons website. Filceolaire (talk) 01:40, 24 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Christian140, Visite fortuitement prolongée, Wylve, Yair rand, Snipre: @StevenJ81, Jura, Gestumblindi, Filceolaire: ✓ Done blood type (P1853), with datatype = item (items have also been created).

As someone entrusted with the "property creator" role, it falls to me to weigh up this evenly-divided (numerically speaking) discussion. I have done, so, having also read the previous discussions cited above.

To paraphrase, there seem to be two grounds for opposing:

  1. Legal issues
  2. Lack of use outside Asia

With regard to the first of these, no evidence was offered that, for example, the WMF-hosted Japanese-language (note: not Japan-hosted) Wikipedia, edited and read by Japanese speakers from every continent, has had a problem with publishing this data. The suggestion that we must first obtain WMF approval before creating a property would set a bad precedent. The WMF can, of course, instruct us to remove any data held illegally, should such a case arise. Again, no evidence that holding publicly-referenced blood-type data on US servers is illegal was offered, and I found such arguments uncompelling. I also note that the blood types of US presidents are available online.

With regard to the second point, I am mindful that WMF projects are often criticised for systemic bias towards western culture. We must not perpetuate this. I again found the argument uncompelling.

I also note that the discussion in archive 22 had a majority in favour of creating this property.

Accordingly, I have created the property. Should anyone wish to ask our colleagues in the WMF legal team to review my decision, they are welcome to do so. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:59, 25 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Pigsonthewing, that is your prerogative, of course, and I'm not going to go invoke the legal team.
I do believe you should add a constraint along the lines that if the person is still living, the information must have been made available somehow by the person himself/herself (on an own-controlled website, in an interview the person himself/herself gave, and the like). I imagine that most times when this information is available that's true, by the way.
This constraint would be stricter than the requirement laid out in WD:Living people itself, of course. But I cannot think of a single reason that this information would be publicly important, even for a very public personality, unless the person himself/herself chooses to disclose it.
This would be a reasonable compromise between the position some of us have—that it's not really anyone's business, and may violate privacy laws—and the position that others of us have—that many people make it public, and therefore there is no reason not to include it. StevenJ81 (talk) 15:07, 27 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I fail to see how such constraint could be done. Visite fortuitement prolongée (talk) 19:55, 27 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
How enforceable it would be is a good question. But some properties do have constraints attached, and various admins, editors, bots, etc. do clean up violations. See, for example, Wikidata:Database reports/Constraint violations/Mandatory constraints. This wouldn't be such an easy one; one would have to go back and check the original source to see if the individual has actually given permission. StevenJ81 (talk) 13:47, 28 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment Thanks to Andy for creating this. To gather some practical experience (and expand our database), it would help if everyone else participating in this discussion would be kind and attempt to contribute the property to 5 to 10 items. --- Jura 15:17, 27 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm sure you'll understand if I choose not to do so. StevenJ81 (talk) 15:19, 27 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    No thank you. Visite fortuitement prolongée (talk) 19:55, 27 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Kiev street code

Descriptioncode of street of Kiev
Template parameteruk:Template:Вулиця
Allowed values10001-99999
ExampleKhreshchatyk (Q1076911) => 11808
Format and edit filter validation5 digits

Motivation: Kiev now has streets registry, and each street has own 5-digit code. I want add this value to street infobox.--Ahonc (talk) 17:49, 18 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed by: Ahonc (talk) 17:49, 18 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Ahonc: ✓ Done Kyiv street code (P1854); datatype=string. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:17, 25 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]



On the talk page of, for example, Union List of Artist Names ID (P245), in the {{Property documentation}} template, we have Vincent van Gogh (Q5582) => 500115588. On given name (P735) we have George Washington (Q23) => George (Q15921732).

I therefore propose that have property "Wikidata property example", with that type "item", and qualifiers "Wikidata example item" (type:item); "Wikidata example string" (type:string); "Wikidata example number" (type:number), and so on, for each current and future data type.

This will enable documentation to be built, and queried, programmatically. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:58, 19 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

✓ Done Wikidata property example (P1855). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:51, 26 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • Were also created:
P1856 (P1856)
P1858 (P1858)
P1859 (P1859)
P1860 (P1860)
P1861 (P1861)
P1862 (P1862)
P1863 (P1863)
P1864 (P1864)
P1865 (P1865)

catholic-hierarchy diocese ID

DescriptionID of the diocese on
Data typeString
Template parameterch in fr:template:infobox Diocèse catholique; fr:template:infobox Archidiocèse catholique; fr:template:infobox Juridiction christianisme
Domainorganization (Q43229) or diocese (Q665487)
ExampleRoman Catholic Archdiocese of Paris (Q1242250) => pars
Formatter URL$1.html

A l'identique de la propriété P1047, il s'agirait de créer une propriété dans le même genre pour le même site afin de recueillir la référence pour un diocèse.

Hello I want this property for the infobox in french of the diocese and archdiocese as similar as the Catholic Hierarchy person ID (P1047).

Proposé par: Olivier LPB (talk)

(Ajoutez ici vos motivations pour la création de cette propriété) Olivier LPB (talk) 08:50, 18 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

 Support. — Ayack (talk) 09:53, 18 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Support. – Charles Matthews (talk) 14:17, 26 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Support --Magnus Manske (talk) 19:12, 26 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Olivier LPB, Ayack, Charles Matthews, Magnus Manske: ✓ Done Catholic Hierarchy diocese ID (P1866) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:31, 27 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

eligible voters

Descriptionnumber of eligible voters for a particular election
Data typeNumber (not available yet)
Allowed valuespositive integer
Example2010 United Kingdom general election (Q215622) => 45,597,461
Sourcenews outlets as well as official government sources if applicable
Robot and gadget jobsNone

Proposed by: —Wylve (talk)

This can be used to calculate voter turnout rate. —Wylve (talk) 07:34, 16 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Can you give a clear definition of what are the eligible voters? What is the difference with the registered voters? --Dom (talk) 05:50, 17 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I see registered voters as a subclass of eligible voters. In most types of national elections, the eligible voters are registered voters, as they register with their governments. But with other types of elections, like party elections or elections that do not involve voting by the public but an election committee, the voters are not strictly "registered". So eligible voter includes registered voters, but I didn't choose to use to word "registered" as that would be too limiting. —Wylve (talk) 17:00, 17 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Support Eligible voters, electorate (P1831), and ballots cast are all separate and distinct statistics for elections. Each has value and is perfect data for WD to have if it is available. Exact definition of who is 'eligible' and who is 'registered' is obviously dependent on local laws related to elections, but none-the-less they are important data to maintain and be able to access when researching elections. Josh Baumgartner (talk) 22:30, 20 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Wylve, Dom, Joshbaumgartner: ✓ Done eligible voters (P1867) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:39, 27 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Ballot cast

   Done: ballots cast (P1868) (Talk and documentation)
Descriptiontotal number of votes ballot(s) cast, including invalid or blank ballots
Data typeNumber (not available yet)
Allowed valuespositive integer
Example2010 United Kingdom general election (Q215622) => 29,687,604
Sourcenews outlets as well as official government sources if applicable
Robot and gadget jobsNone

Proposed by: —Wylve (talk)

This can be used to calculate voter turnout rate. —Wylve (talk) 07:34, 16 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

 Support but propose to rename as 'ballots cast' since a single voter can put in zero, one, or multiple votes depending on the particulars of the election. Josh Baumgartner (talk) 22:30, 20 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Modified proposal to match name change. —Wylve (talk) 09:57, 26 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Support. I think we can use qualifiers for valid/invalid ballots. —putnik 14:51, 26 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
We already have total valid votes (P1697). —Wylve (talk) 22:28, 26 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Wylve, Joshbaumgartner, putnik: ✓ Done ballots cast (P1868) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:43, 27 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hall of Valor ID

DescriptionIdentifier for a medal recipient, in the US Hall of Valor
Allowed valuesValid HoV URL slugs
ExampleChester Bennett Bowen (Q5093459) => 482

Motivation: Posted for User:Reguyla, who said "I see that there is a property for Find a Grave IMDb and a bunch of others but would it be possible to create one for the Hall of Valor sire as well? The format is similar to Find a Grave, with the URL=Number schema. This site has a lot of Military awards for US troops and is a very useful source for the medal citations. Please let me know if you have any questions." Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:22, 19 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Reguyla: ✓ Done Hall of Valor ID (P1869) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:49, 27 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Name Assigning Authority Number

DescriptionAKA "NAAN". Unique identifier in the en:Archival Resource Key registry [4]; see NAAN
Data typeString
DomainLibraries and archives
Allowed valuesValid Name Assigning Authority Numbers; usually 5 digits
ExampleUniversity of Chicago (Q131252) => 61001
Proposed byAndy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits

-- Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:56, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

✓ Done Name Assigning Authority Number (P1870) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:16, 27 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]


DescriptionIdentifier in the CERL thesaurus
RepresentsConsortium of European Research Libraries (Q19826098)
Data typeString
Domaintypes of items that may bear this property
Allowed valuesstring
ExampleSimone da Lesina (Q18945790) -> cnp00166993
Formatter URL$1
Robot and gadget jobsNo mass imports yet.

Motivation: CERL has a very useful thesaurus which we regularly use for Wikidata:BEIC work. For instance here I found an alternate VIAF code: [5]. CERL is in the process of entering VIAF, so any mass import will probably happen only after that's completed, but we use it as source for Wikidata and Wikipedia articles so it's useful to track it. Federico Leva (BEIC) (talk) 09:41, 22 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed by: Federico Leva (BEIC) (talk)

@Federico Leva (BEIC): ✓ Done CERL Thesaurus ID (P1871) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:19, 30 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

minimum number of players

Descriptionminimum numbers of players of a game
Representsplayer (Q4197743)
Data typeNumber (not available yet)
Domaingames (any kind, no matter if board games, sports, video games, …)
Allowed valuesintegers
ExampleMensch ärgere dich nicht (Q545129) => 2

Motivation: I want a way to express the upper and lower bound of the number of players a game can be played with. It is strongly suggested to always provide both (not just one) upper and lower player count per game.

Proposed by: Wiki-Wuzzy (talk)

 Support as 'maximum number of players' Josh Baumgartner (talk) 23:38, 20 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Support seems useful. Antrocent (talk) 00:15, 25 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Support. Filceolaire (talk) 12:37, 28 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Support --- Jura 12:11, 30 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Wiki-Wuzzy, Joshbaumgartner, Antrocent, Filceolaire, Jura1: ✓ Done minimum number of players (P1872) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:38, 30 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

maximum number of players

Descriptionmaximum number of players of a game
Representsplayer (Q4197743)
Data typeNumber (not available yet)
Domaingames (any kind, no matter if board games, sports, video games, …)
Allowed valuesintegers
ExampleMensch ärgere dich nicht (Q545129) => 6

Motivation: I want a way to express the upper and lower bound of the number of players a game can be played with. It is strongly suggested to always provide both (not just one) upper and lower player count per game.

Question: How to denote when a game has no upper bound of players? Could the special value “no value” be used here? Or is “infinite” somehow included in the “number” data type? I am still new here. :-)

Proposed by: Wiki-Wuzzy (talk)

 Support I would use "no value" since there is no upper bound. infinity (Q205) is listed as an abstraction, rather than a number. Popcorndude (talk) 23:27, 18 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Support as Popcorndude. Filceolaire (talk) 12:51, 28 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Support --- Jura 12:11, 30 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Wiki-Wuzzy, Popcorndude, Filceolaire, Jura1: ✓ Done maximum number of players (P1873) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:40, 30 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Netflix Identifier

   Done: Netflix ID (P1874) (Talk and documentation)
DescriptionID for creative works on Netflix
Allowed valuesnumbers
ExamplePulp Fiction (Q104123) => 880640
Format and edit filter validationnumber input can be validated
SourceFreebase, Rotten Tomatoes, manually entered
Robot and gadget jobsFreebase ids should be imported


Netflix is a popular service related to film and tv, at least as popular as other film and tv related authority ids currently recorded by Wikidata. Freebase has a substantial amount of Netflix ids for creative works that can be imported. Netflix does not have their own public API, having the data in Wikidata would provide substantial value to its user community.

Proposed by: Thinkcontext (talk)

Thinkcontext (talk) 18:29, 22 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Thinkcontext, Emw, Filceolaire: ✓ Done Netflix ID (P1874) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:07, 30 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Category auxiliary item

   Not done
DescriptionAn item included in this category in one or more wikis, other than a related list or "main topic" article, that is included for reasons other than the generic inclusion criteria specified in the category's P360
Data typeItem
DomainWikimedia category (Q4167836)
ExampleCategory:Harvard University alumni (Q7234382) => Harvard alumni health study (Q5676636)
SourceWikimedia categories
Robot and gadget jobsAuxiliary items may typically have a different P31 to that specified in the category inclusion criteria, which could be used to generate reports of likely candidates.
They may also be identified by a '*' or other unusual piped character, to lift them out of the normal sequence of the category.
Proposed byJheald (talk)

Same logic as the proposal two entries above, viz:

When harvesting information from categories it is important to be able to identify "auxiliary" items intentionally included in the category, that in general will not conform normal category inclusion criteria specified by is a list of (P360).

Such auxiliary items should also be white-listed, when identifying category-member items that appear to be in constraint violation of the category's is a list of (P360) criteria, that should either have necessary missing properties added, or their category membership reviewed.

The most common type of such auxiliary items in categories are survey articles on the topic of the category as a whole, identified by category's main topic (P301). The second most common type of auxiliary item is a list paralleling the membership of the category, as proposed two entries above. This property would be used to identify any other auxiliary item in the category. Jheald (talk) 18:24, 27 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  •  Oppose. We will be harvesting info once only from each category. After that wikidata will have more info than any one wikipedias category system. As such this 'black list' of items that the harvesting tool should ignore should be part of the harvesting tool. There is no need to make it a permanent part of wikidata. Filceolaire (talk) 14:24, 10 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done; no sign of consensus emerging. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:33, 24 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Parent category

   Not done
DescriptionA category that is a parent category of the current category in one or more wikis
Data typeItem
DomainWikimedia category (Q4167836)
Allowed valuesinstance of Wikimedia category (Q4167836)
ExampleCategory:Dutch portrait painters (Q13421910) => Category:Dutch painters (Q6486661), Category:Portrait painters (Q12981746)
with qualifiers wiki=en, wiki=fr, wiki=sv (eg using stated in (P248) => English Wikipedia (Q328) etc)
SourceWikipedia category structures
Robot and gadget jobsArguably this entire property should ultimately be maintained on-the-fly as a virtual property pulled straight from the central SQL databases as and when needed. But until that is possible, it would be useful to create it as a normal concrete property to allow experimentation. Either way, it would certainly be useful for it to appear to be a regular property, so it could be included in WDQ 'tree' and 'web' queries.
Proposed byJheald (talk)

One of the great possibilities opened up by specifying category inclusion criteria using is a list of (P360) is the chance to deliver automatically "augmented" categories, if the reader of a particular wiki so chooses -- ie to give the option to add to the regular view of the category (if the user wishes) all those articles not in the category but that fit the category inclusion criteria as specified in the P360 that are blue links on that wiki; or all the potential articles that could be in the category that are red links. (Or to generate either list as a report for a particular category).

To do this, one needs to be able to exclude items which match the inclusion criteria, but also match the more specific inclusion criteria of one of the sub-categories of the category. To do this, one needs to be able to discover what are the sub-categories of the category, in that particular wiki. And it is convenient to be able to find that by asking Wikidata, the same place as all the other information about the article-items and the category.

So this proposal is for a property to track those parent-child relationships; one could track either parentage or progeny (or both); but it seems most convenient to specify parentage, just as we do on the wikis.

I should underline that this property is intended to be descriptive, to help bots and automated systems, not normative -- it is to record how the wiki-categories are structured in each particular language, and not any single way that they in any sense they ought to be structured. Jheald (talk) 19:19, 27 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • Until someone puts a bot together to work keeping Wikidata's copy of a particular wiki's category structure up-to-date, this is a flat oppose as unworkable. Additionally, seems to duplicate data that is inconsistent between the wikis, which I don't think we should be attempting to do. Maybe there is some sense in a prescriptive category system (which is better defined by relationships already defined on the category's main topic), but there wouldn't be consensus for that I don't believe. --Izno (talk) 17:15, 9 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, per Izno argument. Visite fortuitement prolongée (talk) 20:12, 31 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    One category can have several parent categories (such Category:Dutch painters (Q6486661) and Category:Portrait painters (Q12981746) for Category:Dutch portrait painters (Q13421910)). This is not an issue.
    But the data will be differet for each Wikimedia project. This is a huge data size issue.
    And the data is not stable (like a birth date). A weekly/daily/real time copying/import will be needed. This is a huge data rate issue. Visite fortuitement prolongée (talk) 21:32, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    @Visite fortuitement prolongée: Is it really such a data size issue, to add a stated in (P248) qualifier (or similar) for each wiki the category applies to? A large amount of data, perhaps; but not a horrific amount, surely. Jheald (talk) 21:58, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    I don't know. Lets try a rough estimate:
    • currently about 10,000,000 items in Wikidata
    • currently about 300 Wikimedia project (Q14827288)
    • 400 B/category property
    • 400 B/qualifier
    • if 2 categories/item on average
    • if each category has 10 interwiki links, so 10 qualifiers/category property on average
    • then the qualifiers would weight: 10,000,000 × 2 × 10 × 400 B = 80 GB
    • With more of all: 20,000,000 × 5 × 200 × 400 B = 8 TB
    And there is the history. Wikidata keep memory of revisions.
    And Wikidata do not raw store the datas. It envelop/coat them someway.
    Visite fortuitement prolongée (talk) 21:03, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    @Visite fortuitement prolongée: According to WDQ there are currently 2.5 million items identified as instance of (P31) Wikimedia category (Q4167836) -- so the data requirement per your calculations above would be 20GB, not 80GB.
    One of the beauties of Mediawiki is that to record the history, only the diffs are required. So that probably only adds say a factor of 3 to the storage cost.
    Also note that there is a "long tail" effect here -- as one goes down the tail increasingly many of the categories become very specific, and more likely to relate to only a single wiki -- this again will tend to deflate your estimates (and is likely to remain true, even as if other languages 'catch up' to some extent in adding categories -- which they may or may not do.
    So overall then, an estimate of 80GB including history (or 20 GB for the live data) is probably more realistic. To be sure, this is a substantial amount of data. But it is not a monstrous amount; and I submit that, even without some direct virtual system, this model would still be well worth such storage, for the ability to query wikidata information and WP category information together in a single unified integrated way, and to use it to augment and improve what is currently presented on Wikiepdia category-view pages.
    As a side-note, thanks to the effect of Moore's Law on data storage, I believe I am correct in saying that even with the steady multilingual growth of Wikipedia, and the inexorable increase of history, both the cost and the physical size of its storage have in fact been steadily falling consistently over the last several years. So this should be seen in perspective. Jheald (talk) 08:33, 10 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes, I forgot that this section is about a proposed property only for categories, thank you for the corection.
    Also, if I understand correctly , it say that the last month size of the data of Wikidata, history included, was 27.7 GB. Then adding "80GB including history" would be a 285 % increase of the size. Visite fortuitement prolongée (talk) 15:01, 12 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: There are currently 1841 categories with subclass of (P279) to another Wikimedia category (Q4167836), see "claim [279:(tree[4167836][][31])]" in . Visite fortuitement prolongée (talk) 20:12, 31 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    See also "CLAIM[31:4167836] AND CLAIM[361]". Visite fortuitement prolongée (talk) 21:32, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

 Support Agree with User:Izno that we need a bot, but that doesn't make the property unuseful. Remember that most Wikidata data has been copied from Wikipedia.

  • "Inconsistent between the wikis" is patently false. Nobody has ever claimed or designed a global category system across all wikis, and it's natural that each wiki's category system reflects local differences or priorities. If we accepted the argument that categories are not useful because they are different across wikis, we should also declare inter-language links useless, because there's no 1:1 correspondence between them. Eg consider
  • The categories are in fact very useful data and Wikidata should reflect them at some point. DBpedia has them (as skos:broader, whereas each category is a skos:Concept). --Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 06:29, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    "Nobody has ever claimed or designed a global category system across all wikis, and it's natural that each wiki's category system reflects local differences or priorities." →‎ This is not a rebutal of the argument. The claim is not "patently false", but right. Visite fortuitement prolongée (talk) 21:32, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    "Eg consider (...)" →‎ Those examples are errors or minor design flaw. Not one hundred million statements to be added (huge data size), not very usefull because inconsistent, and to be updated weekly/daily/real time (huge data rate). Visite fortuitement prolongée (talk) 21:32, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    "The categories are in fact very useful data and Wikidata should reflect them at some point." →‎ Why? And at which point? Visite fortuitement prolongée (talk) 21:32, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    @Visite fortuitement prolongée: Labels also change on a daily basis and are not sourced. Yet they are very important. --Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 07:59, 7 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

    There are three fundamental problems, as I noted:

    One is that the data changes in an unstable fashion. Categories are added and removed on a daily basis from other categories, meaning these are not facts or even statements which have permanency, or which even you can put a truth test to on one day and get the same the next day. Our "import" of such categories would be idiotic for this reason alone, frankly. Even a bot is a bad solution to this problem because it ends up being thousands of edits a day (or more) just to keep up. The data isn't useful enough (though it might be interesting).

    The second is that a category in wiki A will not have the same parent categories as in wiki B. This is a problem from our point of view because it turns a query regarding this into a mess (without qualifiers).

    Third is that we end up duplicating data nonsensibly in two ways: one in that we're duplicating the main topic's data almost item for item, and two, we're duplicating each local wiki's data. Neither are desirable.

    I'm going to respond to one particular point: "If we accepted the argument that categories are not useful" — nowhere was this argued (as I think most would find such an argument laughable). I did argue that this property is not useful. --Izno (talk) 17:47, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

    @Izno: If you accept that categories are useful, don't you think Wikidata should reflect them somehow? --Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 07:59, 7 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

    No. Fundamentally, it comes down to "can we describe the topics themselves, rather than putzing about with categories"? has part (P527) could describe what components are in a food item; that's useful because it tells me the kinds of food that I might find table salt (Q11254) in. A property assigning a food item to a location of origination would be interesting; that's useful to a historian. A property assigning a food item to a method of preparation would be interesting; a cook or some such might want to look at different ways to make a food item. subclass of (P279) would be useful to describe a taxonomy of foods (Macaroni and Cheese has part (P527) Macaroni, Salt, Cheese; Macaroni is a subclass of (P279) a pasta is a subclass of (P279) food), which probably satisfies your need best. And so forth. Categories, on the other hand, do not give me an explicit relation between an item in that category and some parent/sub category, and so at best I'm left with vague or inconsistent data/relations and at worse I'm left with wrong data/relations.

    Wikidata can probably help you and your specific use case. It's just that you haven't tried to go about getting help in the way that will most benefit, well, everyone. What kind of data do you actually need to work with? What kind of properties does your project/do you think are actually interesting about foods? That's the kind of information we should capture. --Izno (talk) 19:14, 10 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  •  Oppose. Wikidata is not here to describe the wikipedia categories. Wikidata is here to describe real world concepts. The wikipedia category system does work as a sort of primitive wikidata and does contain useful information. That doesn't mean wikidata should duplicate the category system. It means that wikidata should harvest the information that is useful and translate it into wikidata statements using wikidata properties about real topics. Once this is done wikidata will have much better information than the categorisation systems do and categorisation can be left as a quaint legacy system to be used by wikipedians who don't want to migrate to using wikidata. Filceolaire (talk) 14:50, 10 April 2015 (UTC) OK. Jheald you have convinced me (see comment below).  Support. Filceolaire (talk) 18:07, 11 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    @Filceolaire: The sheer arrogance behind that statement is breathtaking. Wikidata is here to describe anything that we want to describe, which includes anything which would be helpful to other projects. The category system will continue to persist on Wikipedias, and will continue to develop in parallel with Wikidata, for the foreseeable future. For all its shortcomings, it even has some advantages over Wikidata -- the speed at which new categories can be defined or subdivided, the ease with which relevant free-text information can be added to the category view page, the informational value of hand-made hierarchies adapted to the specific data, even the very looseness of the categorisation system which can allow related articles to be discovered even if the nature of that relatedness may be complex would be hard to accurately define in Wikidata. So the question should be how can the two systems best be helped to support and enhance and inform each other.
    Wikidata can be used to support and improve Wikipedia categories -- if properties like "parent category" are available -- eg by giving a place and environment where the natures of categories can be described and documented in a structured way; or by making it possible to suggest content that could be used to automatically augment and improve existing category returns. This would be of real value to Wikipedians working with categories, which in turn would give them a significant motive to learn more about Wikidata, and get involved here, to improve an output that they were interested in.
    On the Wikidata side too, it is naive to think that all the information in a particular category tree can be absorbed into Wikidata in a single hit. Sure, one might capture the most obvious memberships. But the sheer flexibility of the category system, and its continuing hand-edited evolution, means that it will inevitably also include less obvious associations and new associations to be added in turn. Plus at the moment, nobody even knows which categories have been mined, or for what, or how complete that extraction was -- so anything that makes questions like that easier to analyse would be of use.
    Thinking of categories as a 'quaint duplicate legacy system' that Wikidata will somehow bury is a fundamental misconception, as well as incredibly hostile to what is still the overwhelming majority of Wikipedians. Instead, much better to think how drawing on Wikidata can help the existing category system evolve, until perhaps it becomes primarily Wikidata-driven. Jheald (talk) 21:52, 10 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Oppose, per arguments in the redundant proposal for category below. Emw (talk) 23:33, 22 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done; no sign of consensus emerging. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:33, 24 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to (if no sitelink available in a language)

   Not done
DescriptionThis is to help with the 'Bonnie and Clyde problem' and the 'Hatter/hatmaking problem' by suggesting where sitelinks to appropriate articles can be found when there is no suitable sitelink in a particular language. In the future this can be used to add sitelinks to languages which are missing at the moment.
Data typeItem
Domainany items
Allowed valuesany items
ExampleBonnie Parker (Q2319886) => Bonnie and Clyde (Q219937), hatmaking (Q663375) => hatter (Q1639239), hatter (Q1639239) => hatmaking (Q663375)


Proposed by: Filceolaire (talk) There are many cases where the structure of wikidata means that there isn't always a one to one match between the articles in some wikipedias and the wikidata items and so it is difficult for a wikipedia to find the sitelinks to relevant articles in other languages where the article names are slightly different. This property will help in some of those cases. Filceolaire (talk) 00:12, 13 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment This could be solved if a link to a redirect page was allowed. For example Emma Lockhart (Q448108) wikilink is a redirect to Ace Ventura, Jr.: Pet Detective which is ideal. This was only possible because the link was made before the page became a redirect. Periglio (talk) 01:19, 13 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Support We need something in place to allow multiple links to the same wiki article. I have noticed a tendency on Wikipedia to merge biographies into a single article. Periglio (talk) 01:19, 13 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • This looks like a pragmatic scalable solution. Multichill (talk) 08:36, 13 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Oppose Comment A better solution is to allow sitelinks to redirects, with automatic reports possible that they are redirects and where they redirect to. Manual tracking of such redirects is likely to be sporadic at best, and unlikely to keep up with changes made to the different wikis. Trying to maintain a property like this by hand is not work that is worth doing. Jheald (talk) 09:31, 13 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • Jheald I used to think that too but now I think this property will be easier to maintain than redirects in 250 different languages. The advantage of this property is that once it is done for one language it is available for use in every language. Filceolaire (talk) 10:31, 13 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • It will also mean we can split items like 'the murder of Foo by Bar' into three separate items without having to worry as much about messing up the sitelinks. Filceolaire (talk) 10:39, 13 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • @Filceolaire: Reducing my oppose to a comment, because on reflection it probably is useful to track on Wikidata how "redirects with possibilities" (as en-wiki tags them) are being used.
      However, I don't see this as an alternative to sitelinking to redirects, just a way of describing them. But just to be clear, are you suggesting that the long-term aim would be for a wiki-page to automatically be augmented with interwiki links to fallback pages using this property, if there were no interwiki link? That would be quite a transfer of control away from wikis, as to what redirects they want to exist, and where they should point to. Jheald (talk) 22:46, 13 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • [User:Jheald|Jheald]] Each wiki would have the choice to just show the sitelinks on the wikidata item (including any links to redirects) or to show these sitelinks plus sitelinks found using this wikidata property. Filceolaire (talk) 17:17, 14 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment Like Periglio and Jheald, I think it would be simpler to allow links to redirects so I'm not convinced this is needed. Pichpich (talk) 16:13, 14 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pictogram voting question.svg Question How is this supposed to handle different article splits in different languages ? A qualifier
    ⟨ Bonny ⟩ redirects to search ⟨ Bonny and Clide ⟩
    in wikipedia search ⟨ en ⟩
     ? I'm not sure it's a good idea to double maintain redirects in Wikidata and in Wikipedia, why not use a stub small article or a soft redirect like template in those cases ? TomT0m (talk) 18:56, 15 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • It is not meant to reflect what is happening in any particular wiki. It is a suggestion from the wikidata community as to how we think wikipedias - especially small wikipedias with less resources - might manage the problem of missing sitelinks due to missmatches between the scope of different wikipedia articles. If a wikipedia feels it has the resources to manage redirects themselves then they can decide to ignore our suggestions. Filceolaire (talk) 20:41, 19 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • @Filceolaire: Then I think we better should use the existing relations or Simple Knowledge Organization System (Q2288360)  View with Reasonator View with SQID inspired property. For example, for the Bonnie & Clyde project, we know that Bonnie is a member of the duo. A lua template could automatically do the suggestion that if the article about the part does not exists, then a good candidate for the redirect about the whole if it exists. TomT0m (talk) 14:15, 22 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
        • TomT0m that works for duos but there are a lot of other types of group articles - trios, families, partners, groups, lists of characters in a book, taxonomic genus, municipalities containing samename towns, three battles with the same name that occurred years apart, two castles on an island in the Hebrides, etc. Having a property to tell the template how to deal with this seems a lot easier than hoping the template is smart enough to spot all the cases with no false positives or false negatives. Filceolaire (talk) 16:45, 22 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
          • @Filceolaire: I don't think you are right. Our properties are generic. So duos and trios are exactly the same things, as families or partners, as all part/whole relationships. For geographic entities, why not the most little entity that contains the entity we want, this seems a good criteria. It seems a lot more efficient in most cases that to put a property, a few smart choice in the template, guided by generic properties, could solve most cases without hoping or doing anything besides. TomT0m (talk) 17:25, 22 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
            • TomT0m I agree that this will take care of most of these cases but there are still the strange ones where english wikipedia has chosen to group thing together because they have the same name. "three battles with the same name that occurred years apart, two castles on an island in the Hebrides," aren't just random ideas - they are real examples on en:WP that I have come accross while trying to sort out wikidata sitelinks. They are not anything that will ever be linked by any sensible ontology but without the hint provided by this proposed property the other language wikis won't have links to these english articles which are actually more informative than any of the other language articles.
            • I will, however, in future, create WP redirects when I come across these weird cases and sitelinks to the redirects now that I know how to do it. This is a workaround that doesn't need a new property.Filceolaire (talk) 20:37, 22 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Filceolaire: "It is a suggestion from the wikidata community as to how we think wikipedias - especially small wikipedias with less resources - might manage the problem of missing sitelinks". Well, I'm not sure if we should "suggest" things, we should add statements based on sources, not opinions. For example, enwp tends to redirect "Non-notable minor planet no 123456" to "List of minor planets (123000-123999)". Such linking looks very frustrating to me, since it gives no information at all. I would prefer a link to "Main belt asteroid" or "Spectral class X-asteroid" instead. But that is an opinon, and nothing we should build claims on! -- Innocent bystander (talk) 09:45, 23 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Support Usefull property and safe experiment. Visite fortuitement prolongée (talk) 17:35, 29 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • I do not support. I think there enough properties to take care of this; notably part of and use/occupation. --Izno (talk) 20:36, 29 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Oppose This is a dirty „workaround” for a serious problem. It won't fix anything. --Succu (talk) 21:50, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Oppose Redirects have to be handle on the WP side and not on the WD side. Mainly because they are no uniform way between the different Wp to handle such situations. WD is not a mirror of WP but a database with its own structure. We have to find solutions but I think multiplying tricks to do that is going to the wrong direction. Snipre (talk) 14:12, 7 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Oppose Per Succu and Snipre. Casper Tinan (talk) 14:38, 7 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Support per Visite fortuitement prolongée. Although it is just a workaround, it can help a lot with the problem without doing any harm, because we are just providing new data and it is up to anybody to use it or not. In the majority of cases these relations are language-independent, so they should be stored language-independently in WD, not in individual WPs nor as individual sitelinks to redirects. If a r WP wants to override a given relation, it can do it using the currently preferred solution, a sitelink to redirect. Finding an article in different language using any of existing properties is not an alternative. It would lead to unexpected results, because they have not been designed for this purpose. Petr Matas 08:48, 26 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment The same property has been proposed as Similar item. Petr Matas 08:48, 26 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

useful for

   Not done
DescriptionSource is a useful data item for target. Aliases: topic, tag
Data typeItem
Domainany item
Allowed valuesany item
ExampleCategory:Food and drink (Q5645580) & list of films about food and drink (Q17097925) & list of books about food and drink (Q17097548) => Europeana Food and Drink (Q19723898)

Motivation: Proposed by: Vladimir Alexiev (talk)

The Europeana Food and Drink project needs to find all Wikipedia categories and articles related to Food and Drink (with the intent of using these for classifying Cultural Heritage Objects on the same topic). I've searched for properties that can express this (eg topic, subject, tag), but none really seems to fit.

It's best to redefine P971 to make it more general. Otherwise, define this new property. Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 06:11, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Vladimir Alexiev: You forgot topic's main category (P910) View with SQID and category's main topic (P301) View with SQID. If the items are classes then you can follow the class hierarchy with subclass of (P279) to find broader and narrower classes associated to that category, wich is a good start. TomT0m (talk) 10:29, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@TomT0m: This (pair) is one of the inappropriate properties that I considered. It's limited to article~category only and it's 01:01 (there cannot be more than one on either side of the property). My proposed "topic" is applicable to any item, and doesn't have such isomorphic flavor. Looking at my examples: Category:Food and drink (Q5645580) doesn't have topic's main category (P910) (since there is no category Chipotle); and Europeana Food and Drink (Q19723898) is not a category at all. --Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 10:37, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • This sound like a post-it, which would be a very bad idea in my opinion. Do you know that you can edit the talk page of Wikidata items? Visite fortuitement prolongée (talk) 21:33, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • @Visite fortuitement prolongée: Not sure what you mean by "post it". If you mean "a comment", my proposal is to attach an item, not free text. Of course I know I can write on Discussion, but I cannot get it in a structured way with WDQ or the RDF export. --Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 11:42, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - overly broad (i.e., undefined), and can be solved by querying the Wikipedia's local categories. Heck, en:WP:AWB can do this. --Izno (talk) 17:12, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Oppose. We have is a list of (P360) as well. I don't think we need any more properties for describing these special wikimedia pages which don't represent anything in the real world. If Europeana want to use wikidata to find items related to food and drink then they should forget about wikipedia categories and wikipedia lists and think about how they can use wikidata properties and statements to identify those items. If they have problems doing this then we need to look at what we need to do to solve those problems - not waste time trying to create some sort of second class wikidata using categories and lists. Filceolaire (talk) 02:20, 10 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Oppose. per Filceolaire: if you want to use WP structure, use directly WP data, if you want to use WD data, use WD structure with appropriated properties. Snipre (talk) 13:57, 17 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Filceolaire, TomT0m: Sorry for giving an overly narrow example. Generally, there's no property to say "Item1 is related or useful for Item2". You seem to claim (same as CIDOC CRM) that a general "relatedness" property is not useful. But one does not always know a more specific nature of the relation! Filceolaire, "If they have problems doing this then we need to look at what we need to do to solve those problems": exactly! Look at the next section: I am denied an equally general property "category" bceause "Wikipedia categories are a mess". Yet **there does not at present exist** anything better to catch all terms or concepts related to "food and drink". --Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 07:18, 22 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done; no support. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:30, 24 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]


   Not done
Descriptiona Wikipedia category of the source item
Data typeItem
Template parameterWikipedia category assignments
Domainany item
Allowed valuesinstances of Wikimedia category (Q4167836)
Examplechipotle (Q860808) => Category:Capsicum (Q7580291), Category:Nahuatl words and phrases (Q7297107), Category:Smoked food (Q7469226)
SourceWikipedia category assignments
Robot and gadget jobsa robot to synchronize with Wikipedias is a definite prerequisite

Proposed by: Vladimir Alexiev (talk)

Category assignments (article<category and category<category) are not in Wikidata.

  • They are present on DBpedia (dct:subject and skos:broader respectively).
  • In contrast, the "topical relation" article~category is in Wikidata:

#Parent category proposes to add category<category. I am proposing to add article<category.

In fact it's better to merge the two proposals to just "category"

We need such relations for the Europeana Food and Drink project. If we don't get them from Wikidata, we have to get them from DBpedia. --Vladimir Alexiev ( talk) 04:11, 30 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Because those things are not always the same in every Wikimedia project. Sjoerd de Bruin (talk) 05:36, 30 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Sjoerddebruin: So what? Assume article A1 on enwiki has cats C1,C2; article A2 on dewiki has cats C3,C4. Assume A1=A2 and C1=C3 but C2<>C4. Then A1=A2 will get 3 cats: C1=C3, C2, C4. Don't see what is the problem. --Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 17:16, 30 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Vladimir Alexiev: I don't think we need category assignments in wikidata. Category is no knowledge but an arbitrary way to sort items that depends on the wikimedia project. It would not be possible to source that kind of statement and it would generate a lot of repetitions with the other statements. --Casper Tinan (talk) 20:29, 30 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Casper Tinan: Categories are most assuredly knowledge. A bit messy, lacking in organization (true) but very comprehensive. Wikipedians are very serious about their categorization (see numbers in the linked report). We need them for, or how else would you delineate a domain as wide as Food and Drink and its reflection in Culture? We also don't source Labels and Descriptions, but do you think you could live without them? As for "duplication", I am not sure what you mean. Cheers! --Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 22:16, 30 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

See Help:Basic membership properties, topic's main category (P910) and Wikidata:Property proposal/Generic#Parent category. Visite fortuitement prolongée (talk) 20:14, 31 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I want to rebuff some patently false arguments that have been made:

  • "This is not true/useful knowledge": it is useful to me. Wikipedians are very serious about categorization. If you argue with a long-time Wikipedia editor that categories are useless, you'll get slapped in the face
  • "These are subjective, not sourced": so are labels and descriptions, yet we couldn't live without them
  • "They are inconsistent across Wikipedias": only someone who doesn't understand how language works can presume that a single global category system is possible or desirable. Local wikipedias reflect local differences and priorities. Inter-language links are also "not consistent" acoss langauges, see eg Wikidata:Project_chat#The_Mortar_and_Pestle_problem.

--Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 07:34, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

"We need such relations for the Europeana Food and Drink project." →‎ Explain. Visite fortuitement prolongée (talk) 21:38, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
We plan to use Articles as concepts to classify cultural heritage objects, and Categories as means to organize these concepts. See which analyzes some 20 datasets for relevance to Food and Drink and concludes that only Wikidata has the breadth to cover this general topic --Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 11:39, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Vladimir Alexiev: Did you read the Help:Classification page ? From what you just say, I think you should use metaclasses instead of categories (see also metaclass (Q19478619)  View with Reasonator View with SQID ) TomT0m (talk) 11:46, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@TomT0m: Wikipedia categories are navigation links, they make no claim about the nature of the relation. Eg a category "books by X" typically will be applied not only to books, but also to (the article about) X himself. So I don't think metaclass (Q19478619)  View with Reasonator View with SQID is appropriate. --Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 11:58, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Vladimir Alexiev: First the typical usecase: for example Reasonator naturally finds all the books of some author, just using regular properties. Second metaclasses can be used for classification purposes, for example we could have a metaclass Jules Vernes related class, with
⟨ Jules Vernes Book ⟩ instance of (P31) View with SQID ⟨ Jules Vernes related class ⟩
. The relationship is well defined, althouh it's a bit weak in expressing how the class is related. TomT0m (talk) 12:28, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@TomT0m: An excellent example in my favor! WD (and Reasonator) shows only about 10 "notable works". In contrast, (a subcat of the Main Category of the item) lists 77 works (in 2 subsubcats). This is the richness of categories! It could/might be transferred into properly structured properties in Wikidata...maybe in 10 years time. But I'm not talking what we could have: I'm talking about what is already in Wikipedia but not reflected in Wikidata. --Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 15:47, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Vladimir Alexiev: 1) nope, you did not look well enough. Scroll down a little bit, click on the right place, and you'll see all the books from Jules Vernes. 2) And the other part of my message ? TomT0m (talk) 16:14, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@TomT0m: Sorry I didn't see that. But take for example Bulgaria's biggest writer Ivan Vazov: Reasonator knows only 7 works (mostly coming from plwiki), whereas the bgwiki categoryКатегория:Иван_Вазов has 38 works (the full list is a couple of hundreds but a lot of them still don't have articles:Категория:Иван_Вазов). Do you disagree that it will be several (maybe 10) years until ALL of the information from Wikipedia categories is available in separate properties? You could model them with metaclasses (I'd just use a construct from Description Logics, tracing the "author" property from the writer in question), that's not the point. The point is that this wealth of info exists in Wikipedia TODAY and is not available through Wikidata. --Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 07:48, 7 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia use categories for classification. Wikidata use something else (see Help:Classification and Help:Basic membership properties). And I still do not know why this Food and Drink project need categories inside Wikidata, and how it plan to use them. Visite fortuitement prolongée (talk) 21:20, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Visite fortuitement prolongée: Model the info avaiable in Wikipedia categories any way you like. But model it, don't leave it out! --Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 07:48, 7 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
"it is useful to me." →‎ Explain. Visite fortuitement prolongée (talk) 21:38, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
"only someone who doesn't understand how language works can presume that a single global category system is possible or desirable" →‎ This is not a rebutal of the argument. Visite fortuitement prolongée (talk) 21:38, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pictogram voting question.svg Question @Vladimir Alexiev: Why do we need to reflect categories on Wikipedias ? They will continue to be there and to be maintained, queryable and extractable. Why do we need to mimic them here, would'nt they be messy and double the work of maintaining them, a change of some wikipeia would have to be reflected here. Tools that uses this information will be able to use the information from other sources, are'nt they ? On the other hand here we try to use other tools to classify, like Help:basic membership properties and Help:classes. Is'nt there some chance maintaining a category hierarchy will make thing blurrier for users ? Not to mention the fact tht this is a central point and that there is as many category hierarchy as there is Wikipedia, this would be a mess to centralize everything here ... TomT0m (talk) 10:36, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    @TomT0m: These are very good questions. For providers (editors), this proposal gives no benefits; unlike the inter-language link, which converted a combinatorial explosion (N*N) into a linear complexity (N).
    For consumers, it gives benefits: it's easier to get all data from one place. I was working on the assumption that a goal of WD is to ultimately centralize all knowledge. @Multichill: wrote a couple days ago "We have bots and we're not afraid to use them... Wikidata will help make linked open data mainstream and will become the central hub for LOD, just like Wikipedia is the central hub for people looking for information."
    If that's not true (or not yet feasible), suspend this proposal. I'm not afraid to load and interlink DBpedia and Wikidata into the same repo, but many other consumers are.
    In this train of thought... What happens to the Labels that people are furiously editing here? Nothing yet? --Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 10:47, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    @Vladimir Alexiev: I still don't understand for what tasks you specifically need a category property. Could you give us more detail ?
    Now this proposal has in my opinion several flaws. It would enable users to use only one property to express almost anything. For instance, in the proposed example, the main ingredient of the meal (chili-pepper), the preparation process (smoking) and the etymology of the world are put on the same level. It would be impossible to get a precise information from a query using that property. It would also probably generate repetitions. Let’s take the example of Richie McCaw (Q726148). If I added to the wikidata item the categories attributed in the article on the French Wikipedia (New Zealand national team rugby player, Canterbury Crusaders rugby player, flanker, Born in New Zealand, Born in December 1980), it would not add any more information about the person. There are already statements to tell that to the wikidata users.
    1. There are many millions of items with very little info. As I said, Wikipedians take their categories very seriously: each article has 4.4 categories on average. This is a wealth of info that's currently not on WD. 2. Many of the categories represent various relations that will not be captured into separate properties for a very long time. Eg see "chipotle" above, none of its categories fits the "when/where" pattern you gave as example for that rugby player. --Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 11:39, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    You don't need a category property to transfer the information provided by Wikipedia categories to Wikidata. You need a bot and a good understanding of the relation between the categorie and its elements. There are already bots doing just that. A category property would be too vague regarding the nature of the relation between the two items linked together.Casper Tinan (talk) 19:46, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    By the way, your proposal would be better defended if you could
    1/ use a less aggressive tone (‘rebuff’, ‘patently false arguments’)
    2/ avoid straw man fallacies: nobody said categories are not useful at all. They are useful to browse through Wikipedia pages and do maintenance. I just challenge the fact it is needed within Wikidata. Nobody said the Wikipedia users are not serious about the categories they attribute to an article. But the definition of the categories, of how articles need to be sorted out, is at best an educated guess about how users browse through Wikipedia. As Wikidata is queryable, there is more efficient way to search items in the base.
    3/ use real arguments: ‘People would slap you in the face if you said that’ is not a proof that they’re right. It is a proof that they’re violent.
    Casper Tinan (talk) 12:41, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    Sorry for using a more colorful language than you like. But how familiar are you with categorization on Wikipedia, and the editorial guidelines regarding categories? I've read them, and I repeat that Wikipedians take their categories very seriously --Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 11:39, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    By the way, there is a mistake in the example provided. It it wrong to attribute the 'Nahuatl word' category to chipotle (Q860808) as the item is about smoked food not about a word. Casper Tinan (talk) 22:05, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    Ah, the distinction about term/concept and its denotation. But WD does not have separate entries for a concept and its denotation (nor it is desirable to have them, since that would explode the data and get many people confused). Or maybe you'd argue that chipotle (Q860808) is not a word: Well then, would you argue that BabelNet's integration of Wordnet and Wikipedia/Wikidata (eg see sec Sources) is wrong? In any case, I did not make this category assignment, Wikipedia editors did. --Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 11:39, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    As WD is a multilingual database, WD items only refers to concepts and not to words. A statement saying computer (Q68) is an english word would be right for german speakers and wrong for french speakers.
    Casper Tinan (talk) 20:07, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    "Ah, the distinction about term/concept and its denotation. But WD does not have separate entries for a concept and its denotation" →‎ Actually, the separation is made between Wiktionary and Wikipedia. Wiktionary store term/word, Wikipedia store denotation. Visite fortuitement prolongée (talk) 21:20, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    "In any case, I did not make this category assignment, Wikipedia editors did." →‎ Indeed. Visite fortuitement prolongée (talk) 21:20, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Categories provide very rich structured knowledge (albeit they are messy etc etc). You are refusing this knowledge a place on Wikidata. I thought Wikidata should be the home of all structured knowledge from Wikipedia, guess I was mistaken. Then I'll have to get it from DBpedia. But I'll also have to provide some way for our project partners to enter additional items somewhere else. --Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 07:54, 7 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Support everything that @Vladimir Alexiev: has written. WP Categories are things that are well worth analysing -- what's in them, what's not in them (but could or should be), how they differ from one language to another, etc, etc. In many cases a WP category can tell you something not reflected on Wikidata, if it's capturing something that is not yet the subject of a property, or data not yet input into one. Yes, WP categorisation has been human and noisy and awkward in all sorts of ways. But it reflects a human-curated understanding of the item that is worth more than just dismissing and throwing away. And having it would add to the more structured properties already here, not replace them. (Plus, not least, having the information here would open possibilities for improving, or at least suggesting improvements for categorisation on WP). One advantage of WD reflecting information gathered from many different sources is that then possible to compare and consistency-check them. WP categories should not be excluded from input into that process.

    At the moment, you can just about do it -- if you're a real Magnus, and prepared to work with all the WP SQL tables alongside Wikidata. But for ordinary mortals like me, that's a very real barrier. I for one would welcome a section at the bottom of each item page, showing what categories the item had been categorised for, and in which languages -- firstly because this would often reveal more properties that should be added; secondly, because I think it's of interest in itself to be able to see the different categorisation patterns in different languages; and thirdly, because for analysis purposes it would be far easier to have this information directly integrated into Wikidata, directly available in a straightforward, consistent way from WDQ and dumps, rather than what we have at the moment which simply isn't. Jheald (talk) 15:56, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

    @Jheald: Some wikidata game that suggests stuff or reports like this item is categorised in that wikipedia category but there no or weak relationship between those item in Wikidata would help ? I guess based of these kind of reports we will understand stuff and maybe find useful properties that are missing and therefore we cannot atm express a correct relationship ? Do you know that tools like autolist2 from Magnus allows to make query to cross datas from wikidata and from wikipedia's categorisation ? TomT0m (talk) 16:19, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    @TomT0m: Yes, that can do certain things. But it still has its limits -- compared, for example, to how easily one could write a programmatic WDQ query to return all items in a category that didn't match the category conditions as expressed by the category's is a list of (P360). That's the sort of flexibility that putting the category membership information into the same structure as everything else makes possible. Jheald (talk) 16:34, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    Relevant question about the potential for "virtual" properties asked at Wikidata:Contact_the_development_team#.22Virtual.22_properties_.3F. Jheald (talk) 16:36, 2 April 2015 (UTC) [reply]
    This different proposal, in which Wikidata would not store the data (except some caching) neither the data history, and would only work as gateway, would likely be spared of the first (huge data size) and second (huge data rate) issue that I have mentionned. Visite fortuitement prolongée (talk) 21:38, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    I like this idea. --Izno (talk) 17:59, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose to this proposal in its current version, for the same arguments that in #Parent category (the data size and data rate will be even higher here that in the other proposal). Visite fortuitement prolongée (talk) 21:38, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - Another argument I forgot. I wrote above "For providers (editors), this proposal gives no benefits". That's true when the data is already in Wikipedia.
    • But many of the content providers in Europeana Food and Drink are small museums, and they don't have the staff to write WP articles about cultural concepts used in their collections, yet missing in their national Wikipedias ("We will not deliver articles to Wikipedia, as unfortunately we don't have time for such additional activities").
    • Eg Swiecenie Koszyczek, "blessing of the baskets", is a very colorful tradition represented in artefacts of one of our providers, but unfortunately missing in Polish Wikipedia.
    • They would however be able to add a Wikidata item, since that's a lot less work, and no pesky Notability questions asked.
    • What I also need is for them to tie it up to some categories, eg "Easter traditions", "Egg-related dishes", "Easter foods". Then I can do useful classification with these categories.
    So, would you accept this property as a small number of additional category assignments, not replacing those in Wikipedia? Thanks! --Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 11:39, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    gift. Visite fortuitement prolongée (talk) 21:20, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
What does this link have to do with the Polish cultural tradition? And how does it help the fact that it's not on Wikipedia nor Wikidata, and your refusal to add categories makes it pointless to create it on Wikikidata? --Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 07:54, 7 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Reject per [6]. Also per the wikis' present usage of categories to categories items related to a particular topic in a generic sense rather than a more specific sense, per TomTom. --Izno (talk) 17:53, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Oppose WP categories are outdated: categories are a specific way to group articles which is not common knowledge but particualar point of view. And WD can get out of this way of grouping by using queries: you want the list of all books of Jules Verne ? Just perform a query using instance of book with author equal to Jules Verne. WD goes to the dynamic management of lists or categories instead of WP who just works with a static solution ? How can WP categories provides the list of musicians living in the XVIII who where speaking English ? Think dynamic. Snipre (talk) 09:59, 4 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@snipre: I want the list of all articles related to Food and Drink. Do you know of any magical query to fetch this? --Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 07:48, 7 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Vladimir Alexiev: You have to use the current "instance of" and "subclass of" properties and an Food and Drink ontology to classify items in WD and then recover the items we want through a query. What you want to avoid is the building of an international ontology and to use an existing one which is not completely formulated. WP categories are a kind of classification without global overview. So instead of using an empirical classification, just start the work correctly: 1) define the set of items you want to classify, 2) define the properties/characteristics you need to need to know about each item to be able to do query, 3) organize with a bot the correct classification using your rules and existing parameters like categories. As I see from your examples, if you want to query according to some ingredients, you need a property "ingredient", for the country or culture you need another one, for the specificities like the period where the food/drink is prepared, another one,... Have a look at that introduction to have some background.
And if you don't want to create an complete new ontology you can try to find one which already exists (see here. Snipre (talk) 12:41, 7 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Oppose. If the categorisation can be expressed via a property:value statement then we should add that statement, not this vague category statement. If the categorisation can not be expressed as a statement then we almost certainly don't need it. The categorisation systems on en and other wikipedias certainly does contain a lot of information which can be harvested and converted into useful statements and we should certainly do this conversion even if it means we need to create more properties. For instance we need a "preparation method" property so we can include the statement "Chipotle:preparation method:smoked". The raw data however should stay in the wikipedias. Filceolaire (talk) 02:06, 10 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Oppose. Transfering Wikipedia's categories' content as it is is not an appropriate to exploit the data. This would generate repetitions and errors and force users to develop a second ontology to define the relation between categories. Moreover, it would be impossible to implement useful constraints for this property. Casper Tinan (talk) 18:47, 10 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • @Casper Tinan: Actually, developing categorisation constraints (or at least anomaly detection) would be one of the things that would be made more straightforward by having this property. One would use is a list of (P360) statements to define the main content-areas of the category (as @GerardM: is already doing). Any lists related to the category by list related to category (P1753) would be automatically whitelisted, as would any other items specifically identified by the proposed #Category auxiliary item property above; then everything else could be reported as an anomaly -- either as a constraint violation against the P360 statements on the category, or against the category statements on the item. Jheald (talk) 22:09, 10 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • @Jheald:No, it would be made more difficult. The only constraints that you would be able to implement with this property is that the value should be an instance of category. You wouldn't be able to add any constraint regarding the nature of the item (a member of a category can be a category, or an instance or a subclass of anything) or the number of values (WP articles are generally members of many categories). Casper Tinan (talk) 07:51, 11 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
        • @Casper Tinan: You're right -- if we only consider the basic constraints currently defined at Template:Constraint. However, with a is a list of (P360) in place for a category, it becomes possible to define an additional type of check. Suppose the category is for women engineers, with a P360 for the category item defined as per the example in the template of the top of Property talk:P360, ie with is a list of (P360) => human (Q5), with qualifiers occupation (P106) => Sas van Gent (Q81086) and sex or gender (P21) => female (Q6581072). Then it becomes possible to throw a violation/anomaly for any article-like item of a member of the category that does not contain the statements instance of (P31) => subclass of human (Q5), occupation (P106) => subclass of Sas van Gent (Q81086), and sex or gender (P21) => subclass of female (Q6581072), and record that as a violation on the article item, the category item and P360. This is really quite a powerful set of constraint checks that integrating category membership data into Wikidata could make possible. Jheald (talk) 18:12, 11 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
          • @Jheald: Except ... categories are a mess. You often find the article about some occupation categorized in the category named from that occupation. The properties defined in Help:Basic membership properties, instance of and subclass of do not have this problem, as a class hierarchy has to satisfy certain constraints. You can't say building is an instance of the building class, but the Eiffel Tower is. You'd get plenty of false positive in this constraints, assuming you can associate a query to them. By contrast, we could associate a Wikidata query to the class item, which would give a precise definition of the class. The is a list of actually has a feature to do that, but it is unclear on how this will work with the future query engine in Wikidata ... I would not fight for this at that point on the project. TomT0m (talk) 13:25, 12 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

First, thanks for not rejecting this yet, despite all the Opposition :-) @JHeald, TomT0m, Filceolare, Snipre, GerardM:

  • Thanks to everyone for pointing out how to design ontologies (I'm an ontology engineer myself) and food ontologies (I'd researched 3 such and 20 various datasets). The problem is that I need to catch everything related to Food and Drink. Wikipedia & DBpedia have only 6.6k proper "Foods" (with infobox, DBpedia class, ingredient list etc). Wikidata visual class hierarchy has only 2050 foods and 184 drinks as of 22-Jan-2015. But I also need food, drinking, hunting & agriculture tools, traditions, styles, events, people, etc. My estimate is that there are 200-500k FD-related items (in all 11 Wikipedias across the EFD project languages).
  • Please help me to represent the following case. I created an item t'ala cup (Q19825902) "standing cup used to drink t'ala beer" corresponding to this object type at the Horniman. I made it a subclass of cup with stem (Q2100893). But I can't relate it to category Category:Drinkware (Q7440281)!
  • This begs the question: what's the purpose of categories like Category:Drinkware (Q7440281), if they only hold a single object through category's main topic (P301)? If categories are so messy as to be useless then remove all category items from Wikidata!
  • You may tell me "use the class and instance hierarchy" but that's not enough. Eg Święconka (Q877920) (which has to do with Easter eggs but also other foods) has 3 wiki site links, and the following categories (pl, de are translated):
    • enwiki:Święconka: Easter traditions, Polish traditions
    • plwiki:Święconka: Easter Traditions, Old Polish Traditions, German Cuisine
    • dewiki:Osterspeisensegnung_in_Polen: Food and Beverages (Easter), Festivals and Customs (Poland), Roman Catholicism in Poland, Sacramental
    • As you see, I need the dewiki category to catch it as Food and drink
    • And BTW, the Wikidata class hierarchy is as messy as the categories: 16k classes of which 2/3 don't even have 5 instances, and lots of cleanup is needed. I'll use it if I need to, but I'll also have to use the categories.
  • So please allow me a property to let me add new categories to new Wikidata items. It's extremely hard for GLAMs to add Wikipedia articles, much easier to add Wikidata items (I'll post a presentation about this soon). But without the ability to link these items in the same way as Wikipedia articles can be linked, GLAMs just won't do it.
  • I'm not trying to force anyone to use the messy categories. But 18M categorylinks exist in enwiki (plus more in other langauges), and we have to use them since there's nothing better at present! We are used to wrangling with large amounts of data, using machine learning and classification approaches. But you are forbidding me from using categories at Wikidata, even as addition to (not duplication of) Wikipedia categories.
  • @Casper Tinan: can you please explain how I can use is a list of (P360)? AFAIK, it doesn't apply to categories. Please point to an example.

Thanks! --Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 07:59, 22 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Vladimir Alexiev:A quick feeling about your example of a tool to drink beer :
  • propose a property (if it does not exist to the tool class function)
  • create a
    ⟨ Stand cup ⟩ subclass of (P279) View with SQID ⟨ cup ⟩
  • add a statement
    ⟨ Stand cup ⟩ function search ⟨ drink beer ⟩
    with a
    ⟨ beer drinking ⟩ subclass of (P279) View with SQID ⟨ drinking ⟩
  • only need something to link the process of beer drinking to one of its input: beer. I must admit I failed to design a community accepted ontlogy to design input of processes yet, but it's similar to a raw material property, I guess ... maybe we can propose generics process input and process output properties, this would be a start. But I understand this does not fully satisfies you. What I'm afraid of is that if we allow too weak properties we will have a bunch of barely usable statements and that nobody will make the work to precise relationships. We will end up with a database that do not do better than the category system or a basic textual context analysis that some big player like facebook can already do with deep learning technology ... TomT0m (talk) 08:10, 22 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think there should be an item "beer drinking", since that's a pre-coordinated concept (AND) off "beer" and "drinking". LCSH uses precoordination ("Italian love poetry 16th century") and is widely criticised for that.
Being afraid of the weak semantics is right. But rejecting the wealth of info available in Wikipedia cats on these grounds is wrong. Allow computer scientists like us to try to make meaningful use of it, don't reject it. Eg Babelnet has used the cats profitably (for disambiguation) to align Wikipedia to Wordnet. --Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 08:45, 22 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Vladimir Alexiev: Beer and drinking are clearly not of the same nature. If we don't have that class that may way harder to say that the usage of a cup is to drink beer, and harder to find all types of cups or glasses that are dedicated to beers. What we need to manage this is that we are able to have a good inference system that notice then there is some kind of redundancy. Otherwise to say this we would have to create a weird usage of scary qualifiers like of (P642) View with SQID which will have some weird usecases and probably inconsistent ... But I'm opened to discussion. I just think my model does the trick and is generic enough to open a vast field of application. TomT0m (talk) 09:00, 22 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

People are already mis-using topic's main category (P910), eg Amethystium (Q470368) (a group) => Q8946960 (electronic/ambient music). But topic's main category (P910), being inverse of category's main topic (P301), should be used only once per category. As I pointed above, singleton categories are useless, so if you reject this property then be consistent and remove category items from Wikidata. --Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 08:45, 22 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Category items are meanly used in WD to link pages between WPs so no deletion can be approved. But I agree that the use of properties topic's main category (P910) and category's main topic (P301) is a problem because people try to use them to create again the categories system in WD. But I don't understand why you want to use WP categories when you point yourself the problems of that system (see the example of the differences between English, Polisch and German WP in categorization of articles). The category system is pointless because there is no unique system, but different ways to classify articles. So even if we create your proposed property, can you explain us which categories system you will use ? The German one ? the English one ? A mix of the different WPs ? I think that the main opposition to use the WP systems is coming from the discrepancies between the different WPs. WD classification doesn't exists yet but the advantage of WD system will be its uniqueness.
@Snipre: We'll merge the category trees of 11 languages: that's mostly a union, since category interlanguage links are only 0.35x compared to 2.2x for articles. I don't view this as "discrepancies" but as useful local views that complement each other. --Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 10:13, 29 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
You will find more support if you provide the structure of the system you want to use in WD: we need to be able to learn and to work together according to defined classification with can be proposed to all persons who want to work with the concerned items. WPs categories don't provide this feature because 1) categories are WP dependent (no one classification system), 2) no common and centralized documentation. To overcome these difficulties the best solution is to start project about Food and Drink subject and to propose or develop a classification system there based on "instance of" and "subclass of". Snipre (talk) 13:50, 22 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Snipre: Horizontal topics like "Food and Drink" or "WW1 History at the Eastern Front" or "Art Nouveau" cannot be supported by a subclass system, because such topics feed from many unrelated nodes of any sensible subclass system. For FD we need to cover tools, instruments, festivals etc etc covering food, cuisine, agriculture, hunting. What would be the class hierarchy to bring all of this together? Just as "messy and useless" as the categories, but more disastrous since subclass reasoning will infer non-sensible inclusions. ((It's no coincidence that Getty AAT, a bulwark of good thesaurus design, has no facet or hierarchy on Art Nouveau, because Art Nouveau involves a number of techniques, styles, object components, even subjects; and the Getty hierarchies for all these are disparate.)) WP categories include many different hierachies reflecting a variety of needs and viewpoints. You dismiss them, yet you don't propose any other means to accomodate such plurality of viewpoints. The fact is that there does not at present exist anything better to catch all terms or concepts related to a wide horizontal topic; my conjecture is that WD will not tackle this difficult question even in the future. --Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 10:13, 29 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

 Oppose. As a long-time Wikipedian who has spent many hours manually curating and browsing categories on Wikimedia Commons, I oppose adding further support for categories on Wikidata. I often do not agree with Snipre and TomT0m, but I agree with their robust arguments in this case. I would support deleting topic's main category (P910) and category's main topic (P301). I actually supported topic's main category (P901) as an intermediate step to eliminate categories, but I have not seen any notable work on that front in the 1.5 years since then. Thus I now believe that adding more properties to support categories would do less to help deprecate Wikimedia's category system than it would to help categories become a permanently entrenched legacy system that would fundamentally -- and redundantly, less expressively -- bifurcate how we structure data. Emw (talk) 23:31, 22 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done; no sign of consensus emerging. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:31, 24 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Catholic Hierarchy bishop identifier

   Not done
DescriptionPerson identifier for the Catholic Hierarchy web pages on bishops
Data typeString
ExampleBasil Hume (Q527450) => bhume
Formatter URL$1.html
Robot and gadget jobsPossible


Proposed by: Charles Matthews (talk)

Large collection, around 35,000, of data pages on Catholic bishops. A standard reference on Wikipedias. Charles Matthews (talk) 14:16, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Charles Matthews, Magnus Manske: It already exists: Catholic Hierarchy person ID (P1047). — Ayack (talk) 15:00, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

OK, switched mix-n-match to use that one. Need to re-import (unmatched) entries as the IDs are slightly different (no leading "b"). --Magnus Manske (talk) 11:48, 7 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Dubious. The site is not a third party source; it's a privately run database which reliability is questioned. Not a thing which rely on even as source for Wikipedia, let apart having a dedicate entry on Wikidata. -- Blackcat (talk) 08:21, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done - duplicate. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:59, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Sports nationality

   Not done
DescriptionA value that indicates the "sports" nationality of a person
Data typeString
Template parameterTemplate:Infobox Rugby Union biography (Q14373909) CodiceFederazione
Allowed valuessovereign countries, constituent countries, autonomous territories, and so on.
ExampleMartin Bayfield (Q2303942) => England (Q21); Kelly Haimona (Q15695793) => Italy (Q38)
Sourceexternal reference, Wikipedia list article

Motivation: This property should indicate the "sports" nationality of a person whereas it differs from their citizenship. I.e. an English footballer or rugby player might be a British national but for sports purpose is English. Also, a Northern Irish rugby player is a British national but they in most cases is Irish for sports purpose (same i.e. for Tahitian players who are French nationals; Australian players eligible for another country like i.e. Italy or England and so on). Proposed by: Blackcat (talk) 22:46, 8 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]


   Not done
Data typeNumber (not available yet)
Allowed valuesnumeric units
Example 1MISSING
Example 2MISSING
Example 3MISSING


Proposed by: Christian140 (talk) The height of a person is often easily to find on the web, e.g. on official websites. It may be relevant for several sportlers like basketball players. Freebase also has it. Christian140 (talk) 07:32, 18 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • I'd guess this is waiting for the number with dimension type to become available. Thryduulf (talk: local | en.wp | en.wikt) 09:22, 18 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Time2wait.svg On hold Pending measurement properties. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:11, 18 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

borders a region, country, landscape, place

   Not done
Descriptionsimilar to basin country (P205); inverse of located in or next to body of water (P206)
Data typeItem
Template parameterHier den Infobox-Parameter einfügen, falls es einen gibt. Beispiel: "Bevölkerung" (population) in en:template:infobox settlement
Domainbody of water (Q15324)
Allowed valuesregion, country, landscape, place items
ExampleBeispiel: Tyrrhenian Sea (Q38882) borders Campania (Q1438)]
Format and edit filter validation(Beispiel: eine siebenstellige Zahl kann mit dem Missbrauchsfilter 17 überprüft werden)
SourceExterne Referenzen, Listenartikel in der Wikipedia (entweder Infobox oder Quelle)
Robot and gadget jobsFühren Bots oder Helferlein irgendwelche Tätigkeiten mit dieser Eigenschaft aus oder sollten sie solche Tätigkeiten ausführen? (etwa in dem sie andere Eigenschaften auf Konsistenz überprüfen, Daten sammeln etc.)
Proposed byOursana (talk)

Motivation. Oursana (talk) 10:30, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Isn't it a duplicate of shares border with (P47) ? --Pasleim (talk) 17:52, 26 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I think shares border with (P47) is only used with similar items, see talk. Otherwise we would also not have needed basin country (P205); located in or next to body of water (P206). This property we need and I propose is very similar to basin country (P205) but not for a state but for any geographic entity.--Oursana (talk) 22:51, 27 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
 Oppose Tyrrhenian Sea (Q38882) has hundreds of items that are located next to it; I don't want to think how many Atlantic Ocean (Q97) has. I get the use of some inverse properties, but ones such as this would make too many pages unwieldy. Josh Baumgartner (talk) 22:12, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done. No support. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:55, 24 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]


   Not done
Descriptionto describe when something is commonly known to be located in the general area of something else, but without known specificity (synonyms are 'nearby', 'in the vicinity of' or perhaps 'close to'). Many historical events are only recorded at this level of detail e.g. "[person] was born in the outskirts of Paris"
Not to be used when more precise location is known.
Data typeItem
DomainPeople, events, objects...
Allowed valuesItems with known physical locations (e.g. "Paris")
ExampleLéon_Pourtau's died in a shipwreck off the coast of Sable Island (Canada), in the Atlantic Ocean. Therefore, example: Léon Pourtau (Q3271273) => place of death (P20) => Atlantic Ocean (Q97) => qualifier: NEAR => Sable Island (Q1336091)
Format and edit filter validation[I don't understand this field]
Robot and gadget jobsUnlikely
Proposed byWittylama (talk)

Sorry if I've not filled out the template correctly... it's the first time I've tried. This issue came up during the GLAMwiki Hackathon this week where I was being taught how to use Wikidata. I was working on the Léon_Pourtau entry (since it's a biography that I wrote on en.wp recently it was a good one to practice with) and even as a group none of us could come up with a "correct" way of inputting the "place of death" field. "Atlantic ocean" is too vague, and "sable island" is incorrect. It was suggested I come here to propose the option I thought of during the event to see what others thought of it. Wittylama (talk) 17:55, 20 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

  •  Support. Cool idea. However, given that qualifiers will not be queryable for the foreseeable future, let's avoid making statements that require examining a qualifier to be correct. For example, if a person were born "around" but not actually in Paris, then state something like "Alice place of birth Greater Paris". In other words, since I can't think of a good example of how this property would used to indicate "nearby", "close to" or "in the vicinity of" but not "located in" or "part of", I'd recommend restricting usage of this property to how Wittylama does in the 'Example' field above.
We should also strive for precision where easily possible. E.g., with Léon Pourtau having died in the Atlantic Ocean near the Sable Island, Canada, we can say "place of death North Atlantic", rather than just "Atlantic Ocean". (The "near" qualifier still obviously helps in that case.) These are just nitpicks. A "near" qualifier seems clearly useful. Emw (talk) 14:01, 21 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Item: Offshore Sable island
  • Statement: Is near -> Sable Island
  • Statement 2: Part of -> e.g. North Atlantic
  • Item: Léon_Pourtau
  • Statement: Place of death -> Offshore Sable island
This would not require the usage of any qualifiers in my opinion. --Tobias1984 (talk) 18:08, 21 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Tobias1984, I agree. Wittylama, what do you think? Emw (talk) 13:48, 8 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for making such a considered response to my suggestion Tobias1984 & Emw! I agree that this would solve the issue of this specific article, and I defer to you greater wikidata-expertise in the matter. However, I do worry that this solution requires the creation of a new item that feels very... hackish. It seems to be an intellectual workaround to the specific issue, and one that does not scale....I assume that it's not good practice to simply create wikidata Q items every time we want to indicate that something happened near another existing geographically-marked Q item. For example, I imagine that every article about a shipwreck should ideally have a fact added which indicates where the shipwreck occurred - and in all (?) cases, shipwrecks happen either ON a specific rock, or NEAR a geographical feature. Do we expect to create a Q item for "offshore <harbour>" for every port in the world or "offshore <peninsula>, since every harbour or peninsula in the world has had shipwrecks NEAR it [and this is just limiting myself to discussing shipwrecks...]?
By the way Emw - great presentation! Wittylama (talk) 18:48, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Wittylama, fair point. (And thanks for the kind words.) I am inclined to simply create this interesting property and hash out best practices on its Talk page, as implementers get a feel for what works for this. Tobias1984, what do you say? Do you support the creation of this property or do you think more discussion would help? Emw (talk) 03:05, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]