Wikidata:Property proposal/ship's captain

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ship's captain[edit]

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Transportation

   Not done
Descriptionperson who holds command and responsibility of the ship
Representsship captain (Q849424)
Data typeItem
Template parameter
Domainship (Q11446)
Allowed valueshuman (Q5), qualify with start time (P580), end time (P582) or point in time (P585) when known
Example 1SS Great Eastern (Q733293) → Sir James Anderson (Q7527364)
Example 2RMS Queen Mary (Q752939) → Edgar Britten (Q64770458)
Example 3Titanic (Q25173) → Edward Smith (Q215786)
Example 4Princesse-Alice (Q99772358) → Charlwood Henry Carr (Q100148234)
Example 5Phoenix (Q7186780) → Perry Winslow (Q7169977)
Example 6Exxon Valdez (Q335541) → Joseph Hazelwood (Q1707193)
Example 8RMS Lusitania (Q187425) → William Thomas Turner (Q2580780) end time 7 May 1915
Example 9SS Ivernia (Q1679437) → William Thomas Turner (Q2580780) start time 1916; end time 1 January 1917
Example 11MV Tygra (Q15296439) → Richard Phillips (Q14880810)
Example 12RMS Caledonia (Q12048423) → Francis Henry Wadsworth (Q76582421)
Example 13Otto Hahn (Q517975) → Heinrich Lehmann-Willenbrock (Q60991) start time 1969; end time 1974
Example 14Princess Charlotte of Wales (1812) (Q16223713) → Christopher Biden (Q100324234)
See also
  • (military) commanded by (P4791): commander of a military unit/army/security service, operation, etc.
  • (sports) team captain (P634): captain of this sports team
  • (for use on items of people) member of the crew of (P5096)
  • (for use on items of people) position held (P39)
  • (business enterprises) chief executive officer (P169)

    • Motivation[edit]

    For older ships, identification is sometimes done by name, flag and captain. The above would allow to add the last element to an item for a ship.

    Somehow I thought we had a property for this already, but we only have a few related ones (see above). Notably P4791 is used on submarines, few civil ships use it (incorrectly). An option could be to add P39 statements to people, but it seems to me that it's preferable to add this to the ships directly. (Add your motivation for this property here.) --- Jura 10:19, 6 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]


    Feel free to add yourself to this list. User:Danrok Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry (talk) Rama Christian Ferrer Nortix08 Andrawaag Cavernia De728631 Vladimir Alexiev , 7 January 2021 simon.letort ShipIndex vicarage Pmt pfps

    Notified participants of WikiProject Ships please help complete the proposal. --- Jura 10:19, 6 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

    Discussion[edit]

    As to the use of P4791, I'm not really convinced that assimilating non-naval ships to the military is a good idea. Similar to business enterprises, a separate property seems preferable. --- Jura 20:24, 18 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Not quite sure. Are non military ships commanded in a way the term commanded by (P4791) suggests it? Introducing this property for the use with any civilian ship, wether it'll be a merchant, trawler or cruise ship is possibly the best way to do it. Nortix08 (talk) 20:32, 18 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    @Nortix08: maybe @Nomen ad hoc, Tinker Bell: want to elaborate? --- Jura 20:47, 18 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Simply agree with Nortix. Nomen ad hoc (talk) 20:49, 18 November 2020 (UTC).[reply]
    I think having one property for "captain of a civilian ship" and one for "captain of a military ship" is going to be very confusing - some ships will be both at different times in their career, so will need to use both properties, and some like Queen Anne's Revenge (Q247567) or USAHS Marigold (Q7865742) do not fall neatly into a "military vs civilian" divide. It will be less confusing to say either a) use commanded by (P4791) for all ships, military & civilian (no new property needed); or b) use this new property for all ships, and keep commanded by (P4791) for military units & formations. It will be a lot easier for us to be consistent that way. Andrew Gray (talk) 21:34, 18 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    I simply think P4791 can cover all of these cases, not just military ships. --Tinker Bell ★ ♥ 23:15, 18 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    "simply" doesn't really tell us much. Civilian ships are not military units and a ship's captain is a specific function, similar to a chief executive officer (P169) or team captain (P634) for similar roles that may be called differently or the same. --- Jura 02:36, 19 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    To keep it as simple as possible we should keep commanded by (P4791) for both, naval and merchant ships. When adding a description to cover them both it should be fine. Nortix08 (talk) 11:37, 21 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    AsAndrew Gray mentionend: If there is a ship transferred from a merchant to a naval ship it'll be very difficult to handle it. Disregard my first vote and now count me in for  Oppose Nortix08 (talk) 12:07, 21 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    @Nortix08: I think it's a corner case. Personally, I'd either include all naval ships or use there only if nothing else is specified. I don't really have preference between that. I suppose in that case, I can remove your samples from the proposal. --- Jura 12:14, 21 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    •  Comment Also bear in mind ships like IMO 5059953 (Q1032840) who served as a navy/government troop transporter during the Falklands war The next day, her captain Dennis Scott-Masson received a message asking his time of arrival at Gibraltar, which was not on his itinerary. When he called at Gibraltar, he learnt that the Ministry of Defence had requisitioned Canberra for use as a troopship. Canberra sailed to Southampton, Hampshire where she was quickly refitted, sailing on 9 April for the South Atlantic. There is also [[1]] merchant marine (Q865132), showing the use of civilian as naval ships. Pmt (talk) 16:54, 21 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • The question is if there is any added value in including it in the other property or if a separate property would make handling its content easier. --- Jura 17:52, 21 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

     Not done Clear lack of consensus. JesseW (talk) 17:22, 14 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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