Wikidata:Property proposal/(de)evolution method

(de)evolution method

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Creative work

   Not done

Description	method used to evolve a Pokémon or to make it regress along its evolutionary line
Represents	Pokémon evolution (Q1040143)
Data type	Item
Template parameter	Wikipedia:WikiProject Pokémon/Pokémon species (Q6509891): "causaevolve" in it.wiki "razvija se" in hr.wiki "evoluas pro" in eo.wiki "prvi uvjet" in sh.wiki
Domain	Items to be created
Example 1	Bulbasaur (Q847571) → by level (16, result: Ivysaur (Q1636903))
Example 2	Kadabra (Q2269206) → by trade (result: Alakazam (Q2069801))
Example 3	Golbat (Q2345661) → by friendship (result: Crobat (Q2481075))
Example 4	Growlithe (Q2312415) → by evolutionary stone (Fire Stone (Q27915858), result: Arcanine (Q2486279))
Example 5	Azumarill (Q2705265) → by breeding (result: Marill (Q2705258))
Example 6	Azumarill (Q2705265) → by breeding while holding an item (Sea Incense, result: Azurill (Q2739480))
Example 7	Alakazam (Q2069801) → by megaevolution (Alakazite (Q56676293), result: Mega Alakazam (Q56676707))
Source	it.wiki for sure
Expected completeness	eventually complete (Q21873974)

Motivation

Airon90 Julián L. Páez MGChecker Tris T7 ^{TT me} Tris T7 (talk) OmegaFallon Lewis Hulbert (talk) ...

Notified participants of WikiProject Pokémon

WD:PKMN seems dead so I make this proposal here, without a earlier discussion. Some Pokémon species change, they evolve and since 2nd generation they can also recess by making an egg and sometimes the original Pokémon must own an item. There are also many ways to evolve a Pokémon: some by level, some by giving a stone, some in a particular (and unmappable singularly) way (e.g. by level and turning 3DS upside down, under the rain or when another Pokémon reach a level, there is room in the team and you have a Pokéball in the bag). This kind of information is important and must be mapped in Wikidata but as long as it need some subproperties to define the way to evolve, I think this needs a standalone property. The name of the property is temporary so if needed, change it. I'm going to show you how to map items: the property will be useful for both evolution and "deevolution" (I don't think there is a specific term for that kind of operation). The property must have one of these as statement, for each way of (de)evolving:

• leveling up
• leveling up with high level of friendship
• leveling up while holding an item
• leveling up while knowing a certain move
• leveling up in a certain location
• leveling up during a certain time of day
• leveling up while holding an item during a certain time of day
• leveling up while is a certain gender
• leveling up in a certain game
• leveling up with a certain Pokémon or Pokémon of a certain type in the party
• leveling up while the Nintendo 3DS is upside-down
• leveling up a Pokémon during certain types of weather.
• trading the Pokémon
• trading the Pokémon while holding an item
• trading the Pokémon for specific Pokémon
• using an evolutionary stone on it
• by a particular method
• breeding
• breeding while holding an item

Items must be created yet. Then:

• In case of leveling up, it needs numeric value (P1181) to define which is the lower level in order to trigger evolution
• In case of item to be held, I honestly don't know if applies to part (P518) or item operated (P121) should work
• In case of move/type of move to be known, the time of day, the gender, the game, the Pokémon/Pokémon type, the weather, the specific Pokémon to be traded and the evolutionary stone to be used, the property applies to part (P518) should work well.

Every statement should have also direction (P560) in order to define which Pokémon you get after the (de)evolution.

I think I wrote everything. During next week I will create items about evolution, if a sort of consensus is found --★ → Airon 90 09:24, 3 October 2018 (UTC)

• How do you handle the fact that different Pokemon editions have different rules? ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 13:30, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
  • @ChristianKl: Simply by adding them, mark the last rule as preferred and every statement should have applies to part (P518) to define in which game the rule applies. --★ → Airon 90 07:15, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

Discussion

This property could be used also to map Mega evolution (Q16577590), as example 7, but I don't know how to link back, as I don't think it is possible to use the same property again. --★ → Airon 90 09:32, 3 October 2018 (UTC)

•  Support David (talk) 08:32, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
•  Comment I know we have lots of Pokemon items, but this seems awfully specific for a property. Could you perhaps use instead followed by (P156) or a similar property, with appropriate qualifiers? ArthurPSmith (talk) 18:01, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

I already considered this option but don't think it is useful, because it would need a qualifier for the qualifier and as of now, Wikidata doesn't have such option: indeed, if I use followed by (P156) then I need a qualifier to define how the item (de)evolves into that specified Pokémon and then I need a qualifier for the qualifier to clarify level/item/Pokémon/...

See examples in order to understand how many data would this operation needs.

Other way to mapping these data are obviously welcome! --★ → Airon 90 06:48, 7 October 2018 (UTC)

EDIT: IMHO, I also think that it doesn't have any sense to partially map the way of evolution. It is useless to just know that certain Pokémon evolve leveling it up or trading it with another Pokémon withour specifying the level which it evolve since or the Pokémon needed to be traded to trigger evolution. I think that either we allow mapping all data properly or it is useless partial work and it would be then better not to map at all these data :) --★ → Airon 90 06:53, 7 October 2018 (UTC)

• How do you handle the fact that different Pokemon editions have different rules? ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 13:30, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

@ChristianKl: Yes, just give correct priority to statements and applies to part (P518) will do the job ;) --★ → Airon 90 07:14, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

• @Airon90, ChristianKl, ArthurPSmith, ديفيد عادل وهبة خليل 2:  Not done, because lacks of consensus for up to 3 months. Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 16:42, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
  • @ZI Jony: Sorry, where is the «lack of consensus»? --★ → Airon 90 07:10, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
• Given that nobody voted against this propsal, I don't feel the need to close it and reopened it. Plenty of proposals are open for more then 3 months. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 07:24, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
•  Weak oppose I'm not sure Wikidata is the place to get so specific on the mechanics of one specific game. It's Pokemon now, and what other game will come later? NMaia (talk) 06:31, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

@NMaia: That info is mapped in many infoboxes, so I think it is somehow useful to Wikipedia, otherwise this info would not be inserted there. If info about other games should be added then we decide what to do later. If you think that this info could be mapped in another way I am open to listen to your proposal ;) --★ → Airon 90 07:29, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

•  Support. Since there are loads of Pokemon fans editing Wikidata and Wikipedia, and Pokemon is already deemed notable for Wikipedia, the argument of "we can't have properties for every fantasy" is moot. If there were no community behind it, we couldn't, but since there is a lot of interest, it won't be an issue. This point can be raised once somebody wants to make a property for something more obscure. --Ysangkok (talk) 16:02, 31 July 2019 (UTC)
•  Comment I would support if it was more generic, and could be applied to other game mechanics. What about something like "uses progression mechanic (Q66309984)"?--Pharos (talk) 03:59, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

@Pharos: I am not sure about your wording: Pokémon evolution (Q1040143) is a progression mechanic (Q66309984) and this property is about how it happens. Anyway, the name of the property is not that important, as long as it will be used as I am proposing --★ → Airon 90 09:59, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

•  Support I believe it's justified given the large number of Pokemon items --Trade (talk) 20:09, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
•  Oppose It hasn't been explained why appears in the form of (P4675) would not work for this use case.
  Also, I cringe at saying this because so much of my life was resenting this comparison; but if we're supporting Mega evolution (Q16577590) we might as well support Digivolution (Q2577011) (ie. Kokomon (Q67225011) turns into Lopmon (Q1986418)). It'd at least broaden the scope a bit. :/ –MJL ‐Talk‐^☖ 03:40, 11 September 2019 (UTC)

@MJL: Either you didn't read the proposal or you didn't understand it. appears in the form of (P4675) is about what an item turns into (Zeus into a *bull*), my proposal is about how an item turns into another item (Bulbasaur into Ivysaur *by levelling it up* to 16). I am not a Digimon fan and AFAIK this proposal is not useful for Digivolution (Q2577011), unlike Mega evolution (Q16577590) as megastonesare different from each other.

I would broaden the scope a bit, but I don't see how to do that. We can broaden the scope later, too. --★ → Airon 90 07:13, 11 September 2019 (UTC)

•  Comment This could be expressible with uses (P2283) as a qualifier on appears in the form of (P4675). I'd recommend dropping the "by" and using existing items as values as much as possible. Swpb (talk) 16:33, 27 December 2019 (UTC)
•  Not done I don't see any consensus after over a year --DannyS712 (talk) 23:15, 24 January 2020 (UTC)