User talk:Vinkje83

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Welcome to Wikidata, Vinkje83!

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If you have any questions, please ask me on my talk page. If you want to try out editing, you can use the sandbox to try. Once again, welcome, and I hope you quickly feel comfortable here, and become an active editor for Wikidata.

Best regards! — Arkanosis 20:53, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

Pls re-welcome[edit]

Hallo Arkanosis!

Please replace the welcome template on my talk page. I edited the Dutch version, but the pink markings won't go away.

Thanks for your attention. Kind regards, Vinkje83 (talk) 23:01, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

Hallo :)
Actually, it was a cache issue ; I've purged the cache of your talk page using “?action=purge” in the URL and there is no pink anymore.
Best regards — Arkanosis 10:51, 5 March 2013 (UTC)


Hi I deleted the item with the links to your various userpages since per WD:Notability, links to userspace are not included. Thanks, Legoktm (talk) 01:47, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Merged items[edit]

Hi, it would be nice if you merged from the higher QID to the lower QID.

You might also look at the Merge gadget in your preferences. --Izno (talk) 19:18, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for drawing my attention to the Merge gadget. I didn't know that it existed. It is very useful !
It took me quite some time, however, to find it hidden behind the tiny triangle.
I will remember to merge into the lower-numbered QID. No trouble. Yet I am curious to know what the reason for that rule is. Kind regards, Vinkje83 (talk) 19:46, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
Well, the biggest reason why is because lower numbers are more likely to have links, external links, and such. Another reason is because it's nice to have a more connected history of items. :) --Izno (talk) 20:29, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

Tennis articles[edit]

Please don't merge anymore articles like 2011 AEGON International – Women's Singles (Q2297357) and 2011 AEGON International – Women (Q13427146) because those articles are not the same. First one is women's singles tournament and second one just women's tournament, including singles and doubles. Was hard work to restore all this kind of links as they were before. --Stryn (talk) 19:55, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Combined WTA/ATP tennis tournaments[edit]

Hello Zebulon84,

Here you merged two Q-nodes into one which should have remained separate. Coupling the men's singles with the full ATP tournament is no longer done (since december 2012).

The structure of a combined WTA/ATP tennis tournament is as follows:

  • the combined tournament consists of the men's tournament and the women's tournament
  • each of these consists of a singles tournament and a doubles tournament

Properties should be attached to the appropriate level.

Language articles are to be attached to the Q-node where they belong. In this respect we find that the languages wiki's tend to fall apart into two categories:

  • E-type (English, Italian, Spanish, Russian, ...) possessing one article on the 'combined tournament level' and detailed articles for men/singles, men/doubles, women/singles, women/doubles.
  • D-type (Dutch, Deutsch, French, Polish, ...) possessing one article for the women's tournament and one article for the men's tournament. Recently some D-type countries started to add a small 'umbrella' article to ease navigation to the E-type countries (vice versa). The Germans have done most of that work already; the Dutch are underway and the Polish have just started. Perhaps I might suggest that the French follow the example?

This implies that some of the seven Q-nodes will not contain articles in your language. Still it would be useful to specify a title for such nodes in your language. Such titles will clarify the navigation through the Q-node structure.

Hopefully you are willing to co-operate in maintaining this structure.

Kind regards, Vinkje83 (talk) 09:40, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

I thought I had checked to link to the right level, but obviously I made a mistake. Sorry.
I'll double check that in the future if I encounter the same situation.
French currently have a combined tournament level article only for Grand Slams. I will suggest a small 'umbrella' articles for other combined tournaments to the Tennis project, and see the reaction.
Best Regards, Zebulon84 (talk) 01:11, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

1986 Italian Open[edit]

Hi Vinkje83, can you have a look at the English "1986 Italian Open" article? It has one wikidata link to the Italian article but it goes to "Internazionali d'Italia 1988" which is the wrong year. In the English article I clicked on 'edit links' (Q16202264) and it originally showed only the English entry in the Wikipedia section. An attempt to add the correct Italian tournament resulted in an error message that it was already in use by another item. I then added the English article from the Italian side which works in the sense that it now correctly goes to the 1986 English article but the English article still goes to the 1988 Italian article. --Wolbo (talk) 13:31, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

✓ Done Removed sneaky leftover from old interwiki times. Cry.png Greetz, Vinkje83 (talk) 20:27, 10 August 2015 (UTC)
Bedankt! Wouldn't have found that easily. Fixed "1985 Italian Open" which had the same issue.--Wolbo (talk) 20:47, 10 August 2015 (UTC)
Another question, what is the procedure for merging duplicate wikidata items? I tried to add the Spanish page "Masters de Roma 1985" to the "1985 Italian Open" (Q3800262) but get an error message that it is already used by item Masters de Roma 1985 (Q16605256).--Wolbo (talk) 21:31, 10 August 2015 (UTC)
I proceed as follows: open both wikidata items in separate tabs in your browser window. Investigate which one has the higher Q-number. Get that number (including the Q) in your 'copy' key. Switch to the tab with the lower-numbered item. From the tab "More" (down arrow) select the function "Merge with...". In the Merge Wizard which pops up: paste the copied Q-number into the field "Merge with", leave the option box "Always merge into the older item" checked (or: check it if it isn't), and click the Merge button. The merge function works straightaway, but you may have to do some refreshing (^R) in your browser. I might have done this here, but I left it intentionally for you to practice. Good luck! Vinkje83 (talk) 22:10, 10 August 2015 (UTC)
Oh, yes; there is more: the evacuated item is, nowadays, automatically changed into a redirect. Use the "what links here" function to find any items referring to it, and change those to refer to the merged item instead. It is true that visitors will be linked-through, even if you don't skip over the redirect, but the label of the destination will not show (just Q.....). Vinkje83 (talk) 08:59, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
Thanks, that was actually easy. Could not figure it out before because there was no 'More' tab on my screen. After activating it via 'Preferences' the process was straightforward. Will check to see if there are more Spanish article wikidata items that need to be merged.--Wolbo (talk) 11:27, 11 August 2015 (UTC)


Hi, I saw this and I think we really should decide how to use P641. It was added by Thierry Caro to many tennis player items and I told him that it's not clear how to use the property. It seems that nobody is interested to discuss about it on Property talk:P641 so I wonder if we should mention the problem on the project chat to get more attention. --Stryn (talk) 16:46, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

I have added this property in such a way that almost all items linked to sports articles on the French Wikipedia now have at least one declaration for P641 here. I used, in order to do this, what is pretty unique to the French encyclopedia – the thematical categories that are for linked articles, such as Catégorie:Portail:Badminton/Articles liés for badminton. These hidden categories are usually well maintained by projects and so there should not be a great error rate here. But of course it does not mean that everything is perfect. First because people who practice two sports probably have only one mentioned here most of the times. And then the thing is, as Stryn wants to stress out, that P641 is a bit a repetition of other properties, in particular field of work (P101) for biographies. So was my move useful in any way? I suppose it is for the moment. But some organization needs to be done in the future. For instance, what level should we use? For a female triple-jump event, should we use 'athletics', 'track and field', 'triple jump' of 'female triple jump', if there is such a thing? Thierry Caro (talk) 21:15, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
@Stryn: Following your remark, I added my comment here.
@Thierry Caro: I don't understand what you wrote about the French Wikipedia. Sorry to disappoint you: I have no opinion about athletics.
Vinkje83 (talk) 20:11, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

Few questions on tennis items[edit]

Hi Vinkje, have been spending some time lately on wikidata, adding and improving tennis related items, and have a few questions. You edited 1988 Australian Open – Women's Singles (Q781914) recently to remove the links to the previous and next editions of these events [1]. Can you tell me what the reason is for the removal as the data seems correct and relevant to me? On the English wiki the tennis tournament infoboxes use the 'location' field to indicate the town/city and the 'venue' field for the stadium or complex where the tournament is held. In wikidata however 'location' and 'venue' point to the same field: location (P276). Do I understand correctly that on the wikidata tennis project we use located in the administrative territorial entity (P131) for the location and location (P276) for the venue? --Wolbo (talk) 16:48, 4 April 2017 (UTC)

Hi Wolbo, I will try to give some answers that are both practically useful and correct in their theoretical basis. Wikidata is built according to the rules of a certain mathematical model called 'relational database'. Unfortulately, the wikidata originators have done too little to explain the principles. Being a mathematician myself, and having worked with relational databases for many years, I do not find wikidata difficult to understand. However, I hear that many wiki-colleagues have troubles with wikidata, which is understandable as no-one ever explained the underlying principles to them.
One thing about the relational structure is that you should not repeat properties of a hierarchically higher item on its related lower items. Example: ASB Classic (Q202744) is subclass of (P279) WTA tennis tournament (Q26836193), which is subclass of (P279) tennis tournament (Q13219666), which has property sport (P641)=tennis (Q847). As a consequence ASB Classic (Q202744) sort of 'inherits' the property sport (P641)=tennis (Q847) implicitly, and this property should not be specified there explicitly.
You were asking about 1988 Australian Open – Women's Singles (Q781914): this item is part of (P361) 1988 Australian Open (Q266331), which carries the follows (P155) and followed by (P156) properties. These properties propagate downward to all items in the has part (P527) list, and should not be repeated there.
As to 'location' and the like: two or three properties are the usual thing here: country (P17) for the country, located in the administrative territorial entity (P131) for the city/town/village/region/county/province (or whatever territorial entity is relevant) and location (P276) for the location/venue within that city if that information is known. You sort of guessed that already.
I have been thinking that it would be useful to write a page with wikidata instructions for tennis wikipedians. For instance: many mistakes are repeatedly made in structuring combined WTA/ATP tournaments, such as those in Indian Wells and Miami. I would be willing to write a first draft, but I wouldn't know where in the domain I should place such a page.
Kind regards, Vinkje83 (talk) 12:25, 5 April 2017 (UTC)


Your edits for the 2016, 2017 and 2018 races that I canceled, caused incorrect display of data in templates based on Module:Cycling race. — GAN (talk) 14:36, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

Your canceling edits also removed Dutch language labels and descriptions. I may assume that these did no harm? I re-applied them. Vinkje83 (talk) 14:53, 16 March 2018 (UTC)
Descriptions in other languages do not harm. I used the "restore" function in the revision history to roll back to the earlier version I needed. As a result, all your edits have been deleted. Face-smile.svgGAN (talk) 15:18, 16 March 2018 (UTC)
Hi. If you want Vinckje83, we have documentation on Module:Cycling race, even if your domain is tennis. Sometimes, even if it is rare, we can have a bug to a different display. Thanks for your edits. Jérémy-Günther-Heinz Jähnick (talk) 09:43, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

Tennis legends[edit]

Hey Vinkje83, I’m struggling to find out how exactly the “tennis legends” competition classes are defined. There are some items about such events, but it is difficult to figure out who’s exactly eligible to participate in those events. It is somewhat clear that they are for tennis players that have ended their regular career, but then:

  • Does it only depend on age?
  • Or does one have to be invited?
  • Is there any formal requirement to become a legend, such as having won a Grand Slam tournament in the active career?
  • Or do we have to expect a mixture of different criteria, maybe even varying by tournament and year?

Can you help me here? Thanks, MisterSynergy (talk) 06:36, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

Hey MisterSynergy,
Alas, I have never come across the information that you seek. My work on Wikipedia actually focuses on the active (WTA) tour.
My impression is that there is no systematic approach to senior tennis, and that 'legends tournaments' are organized fairly informally. The players concerned seem to play for fun rather than for money or honour.
The ITF has a dedicated section of their website for senior tennis: [2], but the 'big names' are not to be found there.
Vinkje83 (talk) 07:37, 22 March 2018 (UTC)
Thanks, this does indeed fit to my impression that it is difficult to understand the systematics. To manage the event items, I will create five somewhat generic “legends” or “age-grouper” competition class items (men's and women' singles and doubles, and mixed doubles), and add them to the corresponding items. Once someone has an idea how to refine this, it would be rather simple to do that. —MisterSynergy (talk) 08:15, 22 March 2018 (UTC)