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Removal of Property:P131 from towns in France
I noticed you removed located in the administrative territorial entity (P131) from Martigues (Q237516) and Faugères (Q604751). Is there a reason for those modifications ? I'd just like to point out canton of France (Q18524218) are technically not a proper administrative territorial location for a french commune, and some of us are working on solving that issue in Wikidata – we intend to suggest a new property to reflect that.
- Hello! The reason is very sumple. Now these towns are in two administrative territorial units at the same time. It's a very strange situation. But I realized your arguement. I don't mind. P.S. I beg your pardon for my English. --Ksc~ruwiki (talk) 08:44, 12 September 2016 (UTC)
I reverted your edit where you added :
This seems to make no sense, is there a reason why you wanted to specified that this concept is located in itself? (and do you have sources)
- @VIGNERON: The reason for Russian Wikipedia is correctly information in infoboxes about person's birthplaces and deathplaces. If the Kingdom of Prussia (Q27306) would haven't information about located in the administrative territorial entity (P131) at all, it would be all right. But it has with timeout (since it's foundation in 1701 till 1867). In such cases, as a rule, only information about town added to infoboxes from Wikidata without information about regions and country. To correct it I had to make the edit you have cancelled. Of course it's self-reference. But, for example, France (Q142) is country located in country (P17) country France. It's self-reference too. --Ksc~ruwiki (talk) 13:30, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
- I'm not sure to understand. First, Kingdom of Prussia (Q27306) is a way too wide concept and should never be used for birthplace and deathplace. Right now, only 18 items have place of birth (P19) = Kingdom of Prussia (Q27306) and 1 place of death (P20) = Kingdom of Prussia (Q27306) (I'll try to correct them if I can) ; only 3 of them have an article on ruwiki and none of these seems to have infobox using wikidata. Which infobox(es) are you talking about?
- I don't understand you timeout part either... but maybe a would be a solution, yes?
- Yeah, I'm painfully aware of the self reference with country (P17) (see the talk page of the property...). It make absolutely no sense to me, I hope to get ride of that garbage some day.
- Cdlt, VIGNERON (talk) 14:01, 26 April 2017 (UTC).
- I'll try to explain without concrete names (firstly). For example, a person was born in a town in 1800. The town was situated in a region 1 since 1796 till 1878. Region 1 was situated in a region 2 since 1755 till 1822. They were in a country since 1722 till 1912. Correct information about person's birthplace in infobox is Town → Region 1 → Region 2 → Country. It's an ideal situation, not always reality. There are several types of problems: 1) Town has only nowadays located in the administrative territorial entity (P131). For example, Beijing (Q956) and People's Republic of China (Q148). Then we see in all infoboxes people who was born here Beijing (Q956), People's Republic of China (Q148). That's in infobox of Ma Zhiyuan (Q2634921), who was born in 1270 we see People's Republic of China (Q148) - state, that was founded in 1949. It's nonsense. 2) Town has several located in the administrative territorial entity (P131) without qualifiers. Like in Aix-en-Provence (Q47465). Then we can see only town, like in Michel Adanson (Q315861). 3) There's situations when we have located in the administrative territorial entity (P131) with qualifiers only for some historical periods, like in Wrocław (Q1799). For example, Friedrich Wilhelm Berner (Q96776), who both was born and died in the town, has normal note of deathplace (there's all located in the administrative territorial entity (P131) for 1827) and only town for birthplace (there's no propper located in the administrative territorial entity (P131) for 1780). That,s why we need all located in the administrative territorial entity (P131) for all historical periods without exceptions. --Ksc~ruwiki (talk) 21:17, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
- Thanks for these explanations, it's a bit clearer for me.
- I get the « avoid anachronism » part (and i totally agree, indeed Ма Чжиюань can't be born in Пекин, КНР and it should never appear in Wikipedia or anywhere) but it seems to me that the infobox is the problem here and faulty. It should be fixed to check for inception (P571) and dissolved, abolished or demolished (P576). Qualifiers can obviously be useful, but here, there is already enough data with Q148#P571 so the infobox should know it isn't possible.
- But still, I don't understand why you need . You do realise that it means « region 1 is situated in region 1 »? It seems to me as absurd and illogical as « Ма Чжиюань is born in Пекин, КНР » (maybe even more nonsense).
- For Aix-en-Provence (Q47465), we are working on it but the problem is quite complicated (because French administration is complicated ; some intermediary levels are not adminitrative units...) and the solution is not easy ; meanwhile, on the french Wikipédia, the infoboxes look at the values (inception (P571), dissolved, abolished or demolished (P576) but also instance of (P31), etc.) so it knows how to filter and what to keep or not. But I can at least probably add the start time (P580) qualifiers for all communes-item in departements-item.
- Cdlt, VIGNERON (talk) 09:18, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
- In first answer I gave the example of another self-referencing. So, of course, I realize it's a self-referencing and I don't think it's a propper solution. I think general problem Wikipedias in different languages is using modules and templates based on too different principles of adding information from Wikidata. Good solutions for one Wikipedia doesn't work in another one. That's why so difficult to explain specific problems. I don't insist on the edit cause it's not enough to improve the infobox Friedrich Wilhelm Berner (Q96776) in Russian Wikipedia. At the same time I have started a topic in Russian forum to solve the situation in a future. I'm sorry to be late with the reply. --Ksc~ruwiki (talk) 19:41, 2 May 2017 (UTC)
Здравствуйте! Решил посоветоваться с вами насчёт данного свойства. Относительно недавно сайт по адресу http://www.kulturnoe-nasledie.ru возобновил свою работу. Владелец домена остался прежним, а вот содержание сайта поменялось. Скажите, как бы нам исправить (P1483) и убрать оттуда давно устаревшие и ошибочные утверждения? Сегодня официальный ресурс kulturnoe-nasledie.ru никаких кодов и рег. номеров не публикует. --Frutti-mytti (talk) 08:32, 26 July 2018 (UTC)
- @Frutti-mytti: Добрый день! Да, Вы правы, полазил по новому сайту, он уже не содержит сколько-нибудь важной информации ни для Викиданных, ни для Википедии. Судя по обсуждению свойства и приведенному примеру в Property talk:P1483 свойство уже фактически переориентировано на сайт https://okn-mk.mkrf.ru, например,  через открытые данные минкульта. В принципе, в документацию (да и имя) самого свойства необходимо внести изменения, чтобы людей не путать. В документации указан бот, который загружает эту информацию, а его владелец по совместительству русский администратор Викиданных, можно обсудить этот вопрос либо с ним напрямую, либо на форуме Викиданных, как местном, так и в русской Википедии (если он посчитает, что необходим некое дополнительное согласованное решение сообщества). Да, есть еще механизм, вынесения предложения свойств к созданию или удалению на Викиданных, но здесь, насколько понимаю, речь идёт о серьезной переделке самого свойства, в принципе это должно обсуждаться на его странице обсуждения. Но, лучше всё же уточнить этот вопрос у администратора. --Ksc~ruwiki (talk) 21:03, 26 July 2018 (UTC)
Edits on behalf of globally blocked users
Are you editing on behalf of another user? Please ensure that you don't further block evasion of globally blocked users. --- Jura 15:30, 11 October 2018 (UTC)