User talk:Šárka Praha

From Wikidata
Jump to navigation Jump to search
Logo of Wikidata

Welcome to Wikidata, Šárka Praha!

Wikidata is a free knowledge base that you can edit! It can be read and edited by humans and machines alike and you can go to any item page now and add to this ever-growing database!

Need some help getting started? Here are some pages you can familiarize yourself with:

  • Introduction – An introduction to the project.
  • Wikidata tours – Interactive tutorials to show you how Wikidata works.
  • Community portal – The portal for community members.
  • User options – including the 'Babel' extension, to set your language preferences.
  • Contents – The main help page for editing and using the site.
  • Project chat – Discussions about the project.
  • Tools – A collection of user-developed tools to allow for easier completion of some tasks.

Please remember to sign your messages on talk pages by typing four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date.

If you have any questions, please ask me on my talk page. If you want to try out editing, you can use the sandbox to try. Once again, welcome, and I hope you quickly feel comfortable here, and become an active editor for Wikidata.

Best regards! Matěj Suchánek (talk) 11:54, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

Why are you separated Roman Catholic Church from Catholic Church?[edit]

Why are you separated Roman Catholic Church from Catholic Church? They are same thing. For example, in English Wikipedia has written "The Catholic Church, also known as the Roman Catholic Church, is..." --Treisijs (talk) 20:59, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

In many languages are two different articles – one about the Catholic Church, on about the Roman Catholic Church. This is logical because the Catholic Church is different from the Roman Catholic Church. It is therefore necessary to divide it this way. The Catholic Church consists of the Roman Catholic Church and 22 other catholic churches (for example the Maronite Church). Similarly, the Sowiet Union wasn't the same as the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic. Šárka Praha (talk) 23:28, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
For your information: In Latvia, where you live, operates only one catholic church – the Roman Catholic Church. But for example in nearby Poland operate also Greek Catholic Church, which belongs to the Catholic Church, but isn't part of the Roman Catholic Church. Greek Catholic Church uses the Byzantine rite (as Orthodox Church) and recognizes papal primacy (as the Roman Catholic Church and other catholic churches). Šárka Praha (talk) 23:44, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
I don't know, why in English Wikipedia has written "The Catholic Church, also known as the Roman Catholic Church, is..." – this is WRONG information. Šárka Praha (talk) 23:48, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
Hi I agree with Treisijs, Roman Catholic Church and Catholic Church should be one. There is no church called Roman Catholic Church. What you call the roman catholic church is the Latin rite of the Catholic Church. There is a seperate article for the Latin rite. Catholic Church does not call its self roman catholic. None of its official document refer to this church as "Roman". Roman catholic is a popular mane for the Latine rite church not its official name. (see also Latin Church and Roman Rite) --Jayarathina (talk) 04:22, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
Hi, you can agree with anybody and anything, but it is a fact, that "Roman Catholic Church" and "Catholic Church" are two different terms. The Roman Catholic Church is only one of 23 catholic churches. The Catholic Church consists of 23 catholic churches, it means the Roman Catholic Church and 22 eastern catholic churches (Greek Catholic Church, Maronite Church, Syro-Malabar Catholic Church, Syro-Malankara Catholic Church etc.). For Roman Catholic Church can be used also term "latin church", but it is not official name (it is also possible to call the Roman Catholic Church as "western church", if we ignore evangelical churches and other churches that separated from the Roman Catholic Church). Šárka Praha (talk) 23:08, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
The basic law for the Roman Catholic Church is "Codex Iuris Canonici" (CIC), issued in 1983, while the basic law for eastern catholic churches is "Codex Canonum Ecclesiarum Orientalium" (CCEO), issued in 1990. In the Roman Catholic Church is mostly used Roman Rite, but also other rites – Ambrosian Rite, Mozarabic Rite, Dominican Rite etc. The reason is that in 1570 were the Roman Catholic Church ordered to use the Roman Rite, with the exception of rites that were used at least 200 years before. But all these people belong to the Roman Catholic Church. Šárka Praha (talk) 23:24, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

For example, in the Czech Republic there work two catholic churches: the Roman Catholic Church and the Greek Catholic Church. (The remaining 21 catholic churches in the Czech Republic does not work.) Both of these churches can be found in the list of registered churches in the Czech Republic:

  • item 7 – Církev řeckokatolická (Greek Catholic Church)
  • item 8 – Církev římskokatolická (Roman Catholic Church)

Both of these churches are separately recorded in the Register of churches and ecclesiastical legal persons:

Šárka Praha (talk) 23:43, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

Both catholic churches acting in the Czech Republic (Roman Catholic and Greek Catholic) together form Catholic Church in the Czech Republic, divided in 8 roman-catholic diocese and 1 greek-catholic exarchate.

Bishops of both catholic churches acting in the Czech Republic (Roman Catholic and Greek Catholic) are members of the Czech Bishops' Conferenceit consists of 14 roman-catholic bishops and 1 greek-catholic bishop, excluding emeritus bishops.

Similar situation is in Slovakia. On sites of the Bishops' Conference of Slovakia is two maps of dieceses in Slovakia – the first is Rímskokatolícka cirkev (Roman Catholic Church) with 8 dieceses in 2 ecclesiastical provinces, the second is Gréckokatolícka cirkev (Greek Catholic Church in Slovakia) with 3 dieceses forming 1 ecclesiastical province.

And similarly in other countries.

For matters of eastern catholic churches exists in the Roman Curia a special congregation, namely Congregation for the Oriental Churches. On its sites is written: "As an institution this Dicastery received from the Supreme Pontiff the mandate to be in contact with the Oriental Catholic Churches for the sake of assisting their development, protecting their rights and also maintaining whole and entire in the one Catholic Church, alongside the liturgical, disciplinary and spiritual patrimony of the latin rite, the heritage of the various Oriental Christian traditions." Šárka Praha (talk) 00:17, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

On this topic, I found one article in English on the web pages of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops: Who are Christians in the Middle East?. I quote some parts:

"Seven Catholic Churches or "Rites," each bearing a great and ancient history with unique liturgical traditions and culture, comprise the universal Catholic Church in the Middle East. Each of these Catholic Churches is in full communion with Rome, but six with an Eastern tradition are sui iuris, or self-governing and have their own Patriarchs. All these Churches are Arabic-speaking and immersed in Arabic culture."

"The Roman Catholic Church (Latin Rite). . . holds a substantial presence in the Middle East, more than any other Catholic Church, at nearly 2.7 million members. However, almost 2.5 million of these Latin Catholics are migrant workers who come from countries like the Philippines, India, and Ethiopia to work mainly in the Arabian Peninsula and Kuwait. Of the remaining 200,000, the Latin Patriarchate of Jerusalem comprises the largest number of Latin Catholics at about 160,000. These Roman Catholic jurisdictions are not sui iuris like the Eastern Catholic Churches, but function like other dioceses of the Latin Rite."

Šárka Praha (talk) 00:39, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

I don't think you are getting my point. I completely agree with you. Catholic Church article is about universal Church (including latin/roman rite and other eastern rites). But there is a separate article called en:Latin Church. I understand Latin church is not its official name. But neither is Roman Catholic Church is the point I am trying to making. I still do not understand the difference between Latin Church and the Roman Catholic Church. Also my problem was after your actions here my Local wiki (Tamil) article for Catholic Church was incorrectly mapped with Roman Catholic Church. In the future if you are going to do similar actions wich affects foreign language wiki, please leave a message in the respective article page (in english) so that local Wikipedians can check and confirm. --Jayarathina (talk) 06:18, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

I think Latin Church is only unofficial name for Roman Catholic Church. There is no article (neither redirect) about Latin Church (latinská církev) in Czech Wikipedia. I found the term Latin Court for example in article "History of Greece", where is written that Greek and Latin Church increasingly diverged in 11th century (Greek Church means Orthodoxy Church, Latin Church means Roman Catholic Church). Good schedule of church history is here, where:

  • "Katolická církev západního obřadu" = verbatim "Catholic Church of western rite" = Roman Catholic Church
  • "Katolická církev východního obřadu" = verbatim "Catholic Church of eastern rite" = eastern catholic churches

But it is truth that this schedule is simplified, because there is no only one western rite (western rites are: Latin, Ambrosian, Mozarabic, ...) and no only one eastern rite (Byzantine, Maronite, West Syrian, East Syrian, Syro-Malabar, Syro-Malankar, Coptic, ...). In Central Europe by "eastern rite" is something named Byzantine Rite, because here is no catholic church with other eastern rite than Byzantine. I have not supervize pages linked from wikipedias in other than "latin" and cyrillic scripts yet. I see that was a mistake. The other scripts are difficult for me. I understand that as well as Latin may be difficult for you. I try look at the problem next day or next time. Also, I try to translate your whole message into Czech. I think the difference between Catholic Church and Roman Catholic Church is as clear as that between America and United States of America. Šárka Praha (talk) 02:57, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

I moved the English article "Latin Church" to other articles about the Roman Catholic Church, in accordance with article content. ​​I will try to check articles in other languages next time. Šárka Praha (talk) 03:10, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

Hi Šárka, you might be more careful about changes. I have no doubts your reasons are right, I´m not an expert in religion, but you must take in account that words have different meanings in different places. For example in Galicia, where I live, we always called Catholic Church to the Roman Catholic Church because is the only Catholic Church we know, so this is NOT WRONG information, as you say. That´s the reason why in Galician Wikipedia (and in English and other mayor Wikipedias too) the article gl:Igrexa Católica Romana redirects to "Igrexa católica". You´ve linked this article with en:Latin Church when we have the similar gl:Igrexa Católica Latina. Summarizing, in Galicia, and many other places, Roman Catholic Church is synonymous with Catholic Church, while for you Roman Catholic Church is synonymous with "Latin Church" as you recognise (For Roman Catholic Church can be used also term "latin church"). In my oppinion:
I think it happens the same with Portuguese, Spanish, Italian, French, Catalan, and other small wikipedias. --Xosé Antonio (talk) 23:15, 8 April 2014 (UTC)


Ahoj, ať už to nakonec bude jakkoliv, neměl by se měnit smysl položek. Tedy, pokud položka Catholic Church (Q9592) původně pojednávala o ŘK církvi, neměla by se měnit na Katolickou církev. Položka obsahuje spoustu tvrzení vztahujícch se k ŘKC a odkazuje na ni více než 500 jiných položek. Popřesouvat odkazy mezi položkami je samozřejmě v pořádku. Ale u položky Katolická církev by se pak mělo použít tvrzení P572 (P572) a přidat odkazy na jednotlivé církve. JAn Dudík (talk) 12:02, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

Nevím, čemu říkáte měnit smysl položek. Já jsem opravil mezijazykové odkazy, tj. „Stránky Wikipedie provázané s touto položkou“ (asi ne úplně všechny, protože některá písma nerozluštím, nebo aspoň ne snadno) a také jsem se snažil opravit, upřesnit nebo doplnit „štítek“ a „popis“, aby pokud možno nedošlo k nedorozumění, o co přesně se jedná. Smysl ostatních položek mi poněkud uniká, takže pokud je potřeba u nich něco podniknout, prosím nasměrujte mě (ale vidím, že jste již nějaké opravy dělal, i když nevím, v čem jejich podstata spočívá). Situaci komplikuje také fakt, že načítání stránek Wikidat trvá strašně dlouho (nesrovnatelně déle než u Wikipedie) a navíc se mi Wikidata v každém prohlížeči chovají úplně jinak. Do toho pak někdo nějakou položku smaže a já to zase hodinu či dvě dávám dohromady. Komunikace v angličtině také není dvakrát příjemná. Potřebné kroky bych udělal přespříští týden. I make needed editings the week after next. Šárka Praha (talk) 00:22, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

3 Wikidata items for only 2 topics[edit]

I've started a new discussion at Talk:Q9592‎#3 Wikidata items for only 2 topics related to the split of the 2 topics into 3 items. --Closeapple (talk) 06:40, 13 June 2014 (UTC)