Talk:Q7275

From Wikidata
Jump to navigation Jump to search

Autodescription — state (Q7275)

description: organised community living under a system of government; either a sovereign state, constituent state, or federated state
Useful links:
Classification of the class state (Q7275)  View with Reasonator View with SQID
For help about classification, see Wikidata:Classification.
Parent classes (classes of items which contain this one item)
Subclasses (classes which contain special kinds of items of this class)
state⟩ on wikidata tree visualisation (external tool)(depth=1)
Generic queries for classes
See also


Interwiki conflict   
Items involved: Q7188Talk, Q7275Talk Status:    resolved

Careful, there is a difference between English and other languages term. See also conflict in categories. --Infovarius (talk) 19:49, 27 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Estado[edit]

@Andreasmperu: I've changed the Spanish label from "Estado" to "estado" once again. As in English, the word can be capitalized to emphasize the singular nature of the subject, but the noun is still lowercased in general. See wikt:estado#Spanish. – Minh Nguyễn 💬 09:00, 20 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This is sooo exhausting. As you can see in the history page, this change has been reverted over and over because it’s a spelling mistake. If you had bothered to check with a source in Spanish like the Dictionary of the Spanish language (Q675538) (right at the beginning: capitalised for meanings 5-7) instead of checking enwiktionary (not even the Spanish version of Wiktionary!!), you would have realised how the word should be written. Please, as a general rule, don’t change a word unless you have reliable sources (specially if you are not a native speaker). Andreasm háblame / just talk to me 11:28, 20 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Andreasmperu: Perdóname, thank you for your patience with my misunderstanding. You're right, I should've checked wikt:es:Estado or something other than the English Wiktionary first. As penance, I created wikt:Estado#Spanish, expanded wikt:estado#Spanish, and updated wikt:state#English based on the Spanish Wiktionary. If you have a moment, please have a look to make sure I haven't made any further mistakes. Thanks! – Minh Nguyễn 💬 23:30, 20 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Historical states[edit]

I see that this item is a subclass of former or current state (Q96196009), which supposedly represents states former and current, so that this item is apparently only to be used for states that still exist. There's also historical country (Q3024240) for states that no longer exist. I think that it's better practice in Wikidata to represent past and present items as instances of the same thing, and to use the presence of a dissolved, abolished or demolished date (P576) to indicate that the entity no longer exists. It can also be made clear in the description, with something like "state in Europe, 1255-1427". Ghouston (talk) 01:26, 14 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The problem with this, in my opinion, is that if you want in a query only current items, you have to explicitely exclude stuffs that no longer exits. I think it should be the other way around, if you want to query historical items you should have to explicitely ask for them. Typically if you want to build a map, for example, you don’t want to clutter it with historical items and you want only current stuffs. Unless … you want to work on history.
Keep the typical usecase simple. Excluding the outdated stuffs explicitely in queries could make them a lot more complicated to design. author  TomT0m / talk page 08:39, 14 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
This is no different to any items on Wikidata. Should deceased people be made instances of a different class so that default queries only return the living? I expect every instance to be returned by default, not just the ones that still exist, and it's best to keep things consistent across different types of entities where it makes sense. If we want to be consistent in the other direction, we have to create an item "former X" for every entity class X, at least where X can cease to exist. Actually we had that discussion before, at Wikidata:Project_chat/Archive/2019/04#Classes_for_defunct_entities, and it was archived without resolution, as usual. Ghouston (talk) 04:37, 15 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]