Talk:Q11703

From Wikidata
Jump to navigation Jump to search

located in the administrative territorial entity (P131)[edit]

Discovery[edit]

I think I figured out what happened. On Wikidata: From June 12, 2013 here To June 23, 2013 here An unregistered user went through thousands of wikidata items of locations and added ‎Created claim: located in the administrative territorial entity (P131) and filled it in with a country: The editor received some comments on his talk page here re: incorrect addition on some wikidata items, which other editors had to tediously remove.

And On June 13, added the same claim to Puerto Rico here and to the other US territories here Right after the 50 states of the US were updated, so were the territories, and this should not have been done. While these are U.S. territories they are not "located in the administrative territorial entity (P131) of the United States". Look at any US map to know what I mean. There are 50 states in the US, not 50 states and a bunch of territories.

While some of this unregistered editors additions / errors were questioned and corrected by some editors, US territories and maybe others' wikidata items slipped through the cracks. No one noticed or questioned the edits.

The unregistered user responded on his talk page with how he made these edits and I quote him "I created a bot that traverse the entity recursively via the contains administrative territorial entity (P150) property. The assumption is if A subdivides to any entity B or C, then B is in administrative unit located in the administrative territorial entity (P131) of A, and C is in administrative unit located in the administrative territorial entity (P131) of A. This will ensure reciprocity but it seems to be not true all the time, the contains administrative territorial entity (P150) means both subdivides into administrative division and subdivides into other things. I am using this tool to make sure all subdivisions have other property like country (P17) is set to the same country as the root node. And also to be able to view the hierarchy of subdivision for a country. --112.203.160.147 16:24, 20 June 2013 (UTC)"

So that is why since mid-2013, it came to be that on English Wikipedia and other Wikipedias, based on this incorrect addition to the Wikidata item, US Territories were made to INCORRECTLY be located "in" the administrative territorial entity (131) of the United States.

This is incorrect as the only territories in the United States are the 50 states. You can note that the unregistered user, using a script to indiscrimately add this claim, went through the US 50 states correctly, then also included the claim on the US terrorities, which again ARE NOT IN the United States. Look at any map of the US to know what is in the U.S. Other parameters on this wikidata item cover the political status of the territories in relation to the United States. This location claim is incorrect.--The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 20:21, 1 December 2019 (UTC)

I think there might be a misunderstanding about P131. It doesn't mean the USVI are part of the continental US. If the USVI were no longer part of the US, an end date could be added. --- Jura 01:41, 9 December 2019 (UTC)
Now when you reverted the change, the Arecibo Observatory English article infobox incorrectly shows that it is in the U.S. Is that happening due to this change you made or due to someone's coding of the Arecibo observatory infobox? If you don't mind, please read the discussion on the Arecibo Observaory linked here. We're back to square one again. The US territories are not "in" the US. --The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 14:12, 9 December 2019 (UTC)
I think you are confusing P17 for Arecibo (discussed on its talk page, please continue there) and P131 for USVI (discussed here). --- Jura 14:19, 9 December 2019 (UTC)
What is P131 used for? In your statement you write it doesn't mean it's part of the US. Then you write when it's no longer part of the US it can have an end date. Does P131 indicate USVI is IN the US? If it does, that is wrong.--The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 18:09, 9 December 2019 (UTC)
I wrote "part of the continental US", not "part of the US". --- Jura 00:09, 10 December 2019 (UTC)
I know what you wrote and I believe this is incorrect. The wikidata item already states Country = United States (and that is correct). But this particular parameter P131 should not be set to United States because USVI, P.R., Guam, etc are not in the US (continental or otherwise) but I don't think we're communicating. I don't think you understand what I'm saying.--The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 03:30, 10 December 2019 (UTC)
We just disagree on this point and you went through a series of items to undo statements that had been there almost since inception. --- Jura 04:10, 10 December 2019 (UTC)
So, is your argument that because the information has been there for a long time it must be correct? The information was added by a user (indiscriminately - making some assumptions that in most cases are correct but in the case of US territories, is incorrect) in mid 2013, and that user after adding the information received many comments on their talk page because he / she introduced errors. When you look at a map of the United States what do you see? Because, when I look at a map of the United States I see 50 states that are located in the administrative territorial entity (P131) of the United States. The same way Canada and Mexico are not in the US; Puerto Rico, USVI and other US territories are not in the US. The last state in the US I believe (alphabetized) is Wyoming.--The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 12:05, 10 December 2019 (UTC)
The CIA World Factbook states, under the Geography section for the United States, that the area of the United States is
Area
"total: 9,833,517 sq km
land: 9,147,593 sq km
water: 685,924 sq km
note: includes only the 50 states and District of Columbia, no overseas territories" (emphasis is mine)
[1] --The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 13:21, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
  1. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/resources/the-world-factbook/geos/us.html