Property talk:P459

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Documentation

determination method
how a value is determined, or the standard by which it is declared
Descriptionqualifier to indicate method used to get the value that appears in the statement
Representsscientific method (Q46857), technique (Q2695280)
Data typeItem
Domainchemistry, physic, biology... (note: this should be moved to the property statements)
Example
According to this template:
According to statements in the property:
Interchange Bad Neuenahr-Ahrweiler (Q2532705)Normalhöhennull (Q1398875)
Venus of Langenzersdorf (Q691284)radiocarbon dating (Q173412)
When possible, data should only be stored as statements
See alsocriterion used (P1013), test taken (P5021), approximation algorithm (P1171)
Lists
Proposal discussionProposal discussion
Current uses1,319,875
Search for values
[create] Create a translatable help page (preferably in English) for this property to be included here
Scope is as qualifiers (Q54828449): the property must be used by specified way only (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Known exceptions: kilogram (Q11570)
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P459#scope, SPARQL, SPARQL (new)
Value type “technique (Q2695280), process (Q3249551), function (Q11348), rule (Q16512470), criterion (Q1789452): This property should use items as value that contain property “instance of (P31)”. On these, the value for instance of (P31) should be an item that uses subclass of (P279) with value technique (Q2695280), process (Q3249551), function (Q11348), rule (Q16512470), criterion (Q1789452) (or a subclass thereof). (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist.
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P459#Value type Q2695280, Q3249551, Q11348, Q16512470, Q1789452, SPARQL, SPARQL (new)

Laws[edit]

I have used this property to state that the French President was determined by the 2012 presidental election. I am wondering if that is ok. The logic is not the same (the election caused François Hollande to become president), but the situation is often the same when we use an official document as a source. --Zolo (talk) 19:51, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Not really because there is only one way for one election. This qualifier is necessary when different methods are avaialble to measure one value. Snipre (talk) 13:28, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
Yes, on an intuitive level, I more or less agree. Any idea for a better property ?
I think it is really the same as "is a US State, source: law saying that it is a US state", there is just one way for something to be a US state: there has to be a law stating that it is a US state, and yet I think that it would be considered a valid source. Also, it may happen that different political groups differ on the legitimacy of an election, so that one can say: that one person "is the head of state, as determined by an election", while another would say: "is the head of state, as determined by tradition". --Zolo (talk) 16:26, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
You are mixing property and source, at least for US state. For the disputed election you reach something which can't be correctly described in a databse because this need explanations: better to keep that ting for wikipedia text and put both values in the database. Snipre (talk) 09:51, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Use as usual property[edit]

en:Template:Infobox planet have a field "discovery_method" where there is written what method is used to discovery an extrasolar planet. Before to open a proposal for a new property, I ask if this property could be used. Here (Kepler-41b (Q15114570)) there is an example. Thanks! --Paperoastro (talk) 21:17, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

I would say no, as it is not explicit that what is determined is the existence of the planet. Also, I've heard that a planet can be discovered twice, so to say (I mean its existence is suspected because of gravitational disturbances and then more directly observed). If we want to tie the method discovered to each of these dates, the simplest solution would be to use a property as a qualifier of the discovery date or any other key event. I do not thnk that determination method (P459) would work though, because determination method (P459) means "how have we determined this statement = "how do we know that it was discovered in 2005 ? Perhaps a general "cause" qualifier would work ? I think we need it anyway. --Zolo (talk) 12:49, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for your answer. Following your suggestions, I will propose a new property. --Paperoastro (talk) 08:24, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

List of methods, new methods[edit]

The user interface won't let me save a determination method unless it recognizes it as one that already exists. Where can I find the list of existing determination methods? If I need a new one, how can I propose it.

The situation I'm interested is the Washington Monument geographic coordinates. The best determination is by the National Geodetic Survey, but their coordinates are in NAD (83) which needs to be transformed to WGS 84 for WikiData. I would like to indicate something like "coordinate transformation" as the determination method. Jc3s5h (talk) 11:01, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

You should be able to use "any" method. I tried it at Special:Diff/230168477. --- Jura 11:09, 13 July 2015 (UTC)
The one you added, "test", is on the list. What I wanted to add, "Transformed NAD (83) to WGS84" was not on the list and could not be saved. Jc3s5h (talk) 11:24, 13 July 2015 (UTC)
I figured it out. determination method (P459) requires an item as the value. The most appropriate item I could find is Q3005353. I had been trying that, but was looking for the word "SAVE" to appear next to where I was typing, instead of up by the name the name of the main property I'm editing (coordinate location (P625) in this case. Jc3s5h (talk) 13:51, 13 July 2015 (UTC)