Wikidata:Project chat

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Wikidata project chat
Place used to discuss any and all aspects of Wikidata: the project itself, policy and proposals, individual data items, technical issues, etc.
Please take a look at the frequently asked questions to see if your question has already been answered.
Requests for deletions and mergers can be made here.

IRC channel: #wikidata connect
On this page, old discussions are archived. An overview of all archives can be found at this page's archive index. The current archive is located at 2014/11.



Extortion or Blackmailing?[edit]

Can someone please me to clearify the distinction between extortion (Q6452087) and blackmail (Q34284) and sort out the messy interwiki? /ℇsquilo 19:37, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

I am not a lawyer and I did not unterstand languages. I have looked at de,fr,en,sv: Google translator says that fr and de Chantage blackmail (Q34284) subclass of (P279) extortion (Q6452087) Chantage is Extortion with a distrubution of informations about the victim of the Chantage. w:sv:Utpressning seems to be similar to fr/de Chantage, but I am not sure if the sv:Utpressing meanings includes extortion with other harm like violence too. blackmail (Q34284) seems to be splitted. I guess en Blackmail ist not equal to fr/de Chantage. --Diwas (talk) 21:24, 16 November 2014 (UTC) PS: w:it:Estorsione blackmail (Q34284) seems maybe similar to en:blackmail blackmail (Q34284) or to en/de/fr/... extortion (Q6452087) but not to fr/de chantage blackmail (Q34284).
That's a general problem with legal terms, as legal definitions of offenses vary a lot between countries, and so do legal terms. What is covered by one legal term in one country could be split into two distinct offenses in another. So in many cases, it might have been okay to link articles to articles about similar legal concepts in other languages, but from a database POV, it's probably not a really good idea to try to somehow stuff them all into one data set. --95.90.51.227 05:33, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Intersection properties[edit]

I've just spotted Iranian association football player (Q18542787) (being used with occupation (P106)), which appears to be a combination of "nationality: Iranian" and "occupation: footballer". I'm not sure if we have a formal position on this kind of "intersection property", but I'd have thought we would want to do this by applying both properties separately. Thoughts? Andrew Gray (talk) 19:34, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

(and @علیرضا:, who created this} Andrew Gray (talk) 19:38, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
Well, we do have "American football player"  ;) --- Jura 19:49, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
No nationality though. "American football player" refers to someone that plays American football (Q41323), regardless of nationality. ;) --AmaryllisGardener talk 20:18, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
I'm against such properties and items. Separate the nationality from the occupation. Filceolaire (talk) 01:44, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
+1 --Pasleim (talk) 09:33, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
+1 --Tobias1984 (talk) 10:36, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
+1 --Casper Tinan (talk) 13:00, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
+1 --Haplology (talk) 04:32, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

The above voters are all against certain items that are classes? What generic logic is behind that? If a Wikipedia has a page for such an item that you don't want, will the Wikipedia have to delete the page? Or will they have to manage it without easy interwiki etc? Do you mean to disallow more than one subClassOf statement on an item page? Andrea Shan (talk) 07:08, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

@Andrea Shan: In my opinion classes that are too specific, will become unusable. Think about how we could subclass of (P279) a dog: (1) hairy four-legged mammal (2) hemerophile barking mammal. How would we ever get consensus for such classes across 270 languages? And even a 100 word long label would still be missing things that all dogs have in common. --Tobias1984 (talk) 09:05, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

I don't see how Iranian association football player (Q18542787) passes the threshold for notability. Andrea's objection is somewhat valid if the item has a sitelink to Wikipedia but this is not the case here. Pichpich (talk) 18:38, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

This doesn't appear to be a good way of solving it. Maybe User:علیرضا can respond here? This is probably just a misunderstanding. Also pinging Amir. Multichill (talk) 19:59, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

I send him an e-mail and asked him to participate in this discussion. Amir (talk) 21:53, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
I agree, this would be a nice "Commons category", but occupations and nationalities should be separated here, except when the nationality implies a specific kind of occupation (i.e. if Iranian football was different from what most people (apart from Americans) call "football") - Is it the case here ? — Note : I added a FR label to this item, but wondered about it when I found it… had no time to submit it to Project chat at the time ;) --Hsarrazin (talk) 22:59, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
how about Cachoeira do Sul (Q166378)? In this item instance of (P31) > municipality of Brazil (Q3184121) it has also nationality. there are many the same casesYamaha5 (talk) 07:03, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
This is different. Municipalities of Brazil are not the same as municipalities of Japan or Finland. They have different laws, power, organization structure. For example in Brazil, municipalities are second-level administrative divisions, in Finland they are on the third level. A soccer player, however, is always the same independent of its nationality. --Pasleim (talk) 12:56, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

Wikidata:Glossary is terrible[edit]

Wikidata:Glossary is terrible. It is far to technical. it requires a reader to wade through an introduction to semantic data in highly technical language, none of which is explained. before it even gets to the terms used on Wikidata. Even then the terms used are too technical and are not linked to explanations of those terms. It needs a complete rewrite with the Introduction to Structured Data moved to a separate page and the wikidata terms explained in simple language.

Unfortunately I cannot get started on this as , for some reason, all the edit tags on the paragraphs on this page have disappeared leaving only the edit button for the whole page. Anyone know why that is? Filceolaire (talk) 20:51, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

Don't split the information between different pages because this will be a mess to keep everything up-to-date. Better separate the information of each topic into two paragraphs with one containing the basic information and the second more detailed and technical ones. Snipre (talk) 08:23, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
Also bear in mind, that the page is at least partially translated to 10+ languages, so every change must be reflected in these languages. --Jklamo (talk) 18:20, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
Jklamo Snipre, the problem isn't that the terms have basic and technical information. The problem is that the page starts with a bunch of definitions for terms which aren't used on Wikidata. If these are to be kept on the same page then they need to be moved to the end, after the definitions for wikidata terms. Filceolaire (talk) 10:51, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

Does anyone have any idea why I can edit the whole page but I can't edit individual sections? Filceolaire (talk) 10:51, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

@Filceolaire: I think that has something to do with the translation templates. Tobias1984 (talk) 12:06, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

The glossary is for explaining the somewhat weird Wikidata-lingo and give the necessary reference to rdf/linked data. It is not an introduction to Wikidata. If you want to make an introduction, make a new page. We do need a page that grounds our terms in other technical terms, if we can't use the glossary then we must make another similar page. It is although interesting that we already have diverged sufficiently to create problems for the devs, as there is now a bug about creating a new technical glossary. Jeblad (talk) 02:49, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Discouraging - Why can some accounts via WiDaR make 85 hidden edits per minute and others not even 10 visible edits[edit]

1) 85 edits for time = 1:28 [1]. Edits are not visible at Special:RecentChanges.

2) At the same time, my WiDaR/AutoList2 window shows very fast

WiDaR error: As an anti-spam measure, you are limited from performing this action 
too many times in a short space of time, and you have exceeded this limit. Please try again in a few minutes.

and all WiDaR edits halt. They are not resumed, I have to manually re-start. All my edits show in Special:RecentChanges.

Andrea Shan (talk) 03:09, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Mainly because they are bots, and can bypass rate limits on editing. You can request approval of a bot if you have a set task that you want to use it for. Ajraddatz (talk) 04:22, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
I have no bot, I just use WiDaR. Why place me in a group with spammers? Andrea Shan (talk) 06:59, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=64829 Kaldari (talk) 07:17, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
I think you being addessed to as spamming, has to do with you being not autoconfirmed at the time. Lymantria (talk) 09:11, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
@Andrea Shan: I changed your user rights to confirmed. I don't know why you haven't yet get autoconfirmed. This should solve the spamming issue. On Special:RecentChanges all edits are visible but not by default. Click on "Show bots" to see really all changes. --Pasleim (talk) 12:18, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
This limit is to limit prossible damage by untested bots or spammers. Its easier to reset 200 edtits, than 10.000 if the bot or whatever programme has a malfunction or does something unexpected.--Giftzwerg 88 (talk) 14:14, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

@Pasleim: - Thank you. @All - hopefully solved for me, but the software behavior does not look very welcoming. Maybe there could be a link to more detailed information in the block message. Andrea Shan (talk) 09:47, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Merging without creating a redirect is ugly[edit]

Why is it possible to merge items without creating a redirect? It leads to links pointing to one of the items becoming invalid and this is the result. Petr Matas 08:41, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

We didn't get to implementing it yet. It is tracked at bugzilla:57745. If anyone wants to help with that please let me know. --Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) (talk) 09:09, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
I think that I could update the relevant policies and maybe the gadget UI. Petr Matas 09:24, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
Please fix this. Either delete or redirect the items, but don't leave them almost empty. --- Jura 18:42, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
Sorry, someone else will have to continue with this, I have no more time for it now. Petr Matas 03:06, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
I think that we should say "always redirect and optionally request deletion". Petr Matas 03:12, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
Someone should continue by making the Merge gadget's "Create redirect" option permanently checked (disabled, non-clickable). Petr Matas 03:37, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
For merging of categories and recently created pages is delete useful. see Wikidata:Requests for comment/Redirect vs. deletion. JAn Dudík (talk) 07:27, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
At least it should force to choose between merge and delete. With the current situation it can just leave a blank item (but since I do not see how the arguments for deletion make any sense, I would rather remove the delete option, that would be simple and foolproof). --Zolo (talk) 09:38, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
Ok Lydia, I think that I could do the Merge gadget modification. Where can I get its sources? Petr Matas 10:14, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
here: MediaWiki:Gadget-Merge.js --Pasleim (talk) 10:22, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

Deleting is ugly. I recently saw a false delete/merge, which I could not undo, because I have no undelete-rights. After deletion, normal users cannot see the original content. Andrea Shan (talk) 09:50, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Wales[edit]

Hi

I'm still getting to grips with Wikidata so please excuse the question if it is a little basic, on all the entries I can find for places in Wales (same for Northern Ireland, England and Scotland) it says the country is the United Kingdom and that Wales (or Scotland or England or Northern Ireland) is the administrative territorial entity, perhaps this because of the unusual relationship of Wales being a country inside another country?

Mrjohncummings (talk) 13:53, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

I would not object to using Wales as the country, and for Wales, list the UK as its country. I have not heard Northern Ireland be called a country, but certainly Scotland, Wales, and England are. But I doubt that anyone would want any place in England use England as the country. But before you go about making a lot of changes I would wait to see if anyone else has any opinion. 76.24.193.7 06:20, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
It's interesting that Northern Ireland doesn't really have a type of administrative territorial entity (P132). Province is often used but Northern Ireland is only six of the counties in the nine counties of the traditional province of Ulster. Either way use is in the administrative territorial entity (P131) to say that the counties are in England/Scotland/Wales/Northern Ireland and that England/Scotland/Wales/Northern Ireland are in the `United Kingdom so queries can find all these entities. Filceolaire (talk) 09:02, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
Fwiw, on en.wn (where the distinction is whether or not, say, Category:Wales belongs to Category:News articles by country), for years United Kingdom was a country while England, Scotland etc. were not, which seemed reasonable enough, but then someone added those to News articles by country, which also seemed reasonable enough that it didn't seem appropriate to remove them again, so that's how things have stayed for several years now. (As something of an aside, this is one reason I have misgivings about Wikidata being used to drive structures on other sisters: decisions that would be a matter of convenience on other sisters become deep philosophical questions at Wikidata, which would then lead to those other sisters being asked to let their own local matters of convenience be driven by somebody else's reading of some locally immaterial deep philosophy.) --Pi zero (talk) 12:25, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
There are constituent country (Q1763527) for states like Wales or Netherlands (Q55), is this not enough? There are state of Germany (Q1221156) for states of Germany and U.S. state (Q35657) for states of USA. All this states have a measure of sovereignty. --Diwas (talk) 00:33, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

hermaphrodite (Q303479) vs hermaphroditism (Q16674976)[edit]

Are the same or is correct keep they divided? (I think the second) --ValterVB (talk) 19:24, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

I imagine they would need to be separate. For example, you could mark a person as 'instance of hermaphrodite', but not 'instance of hermaphroditism'. This is similar to the modiste (Q18199649)/hatmaking (Q663375) split. Kaldari (talk) 00:42, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
Well yes and no. We use sex or gender (P21)hermaphrodite (Q303479) with instance of (P31)slug (Q1953597) for notable slugs - though I suppose subclass of (P279)hermaphrodite (Q303479) might be appropriate to refer to the various taxons of slugs. Filceolaire (talk) 00:21, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

Setting more specific claims - add or replace?[edit]

There are two cases where I want to set a more specific claim on items that already have a generic claim:

  1. For items marked as 'occupation actor' I want to set 'occupation film actor', 'occupation television actor', etc.
  2. For items marked as 'instance of album' I want to set 'instance of studio album', 'instance of live album', etc.

In these two cases, is it OK to just add the more specific claim, or should I replace the generic claim with the more specific claim? For actor, I'm thinking it might make sense to leave the generic claim, as actors are often several types of actors (voice, stage, tv, etc.) and I might not cover all the applicable cases with my more specific claim. According to WikidataQuery API there are several thousand items that include both actor and a more specific actor type (e.g. Charlie Chaplin), so this seems to already be a common pattern. Is it a bad pattern or OK? What about for albums? Kaldari (talk) 00:37, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

@Multichill, Sven Manguard, Pigsonthewing: Hoping to get some feedback on this since it will potentially be affecting lots of items. Kaldari (talk) 21:28, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
I'll reserve judgement on the general point; but on your first example specifically, there are very few actors who only appear on TV, and not stage or film. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:07, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
@Pigsonthewing: Thanks for the feedback, Andy. I think I'll leave the original 'actor' claims in that case. For albums, do you think it makes sense to completely replace the 'album' claim with either 'studio album' or 'live album' or is there any reason we would want to leave the original 'album' claim as well? Kaldari (talk) 18:34, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

VisualEditor coming to this wiki as a Beta Feature[edit]

VE as BetaFeature.png

Hello. Please excuse the English. I would be grateful if you translated this message!

VisualEditor, a rich-text editor for MediaWiki, will soon be available on this wiki as a Beta Feature. The estimated date of activation is Wednesday, 26 November.

To access it, you will need to visit the Beta features page after the deployment and tick the box next to "VisualEditor". (If you have enabled the "Automatically enable all new beta features" option, VisualEditor will be automatically available for you.) There will also be a "VisualEditor language tool" that you can enable if you need it.

Then, you just have to click on "Edit" to start VisualEditor, or on "Edit source" to edit using wikitext markup. You can even begin to edit pages with VisualEditor and then switch to the wikitext editor simply by clicking on its tab at any point, and you can keep your changes when doing so.

A guide was just published at mediawiki.org so that you can learn how to support your community with this transition: please read and translate it if you can! You will find all the information about the next steps there. Please report any suggestions or issues at the main feedback page. You will also receive the next issues of the multilingual monthly newsletter here on this page: if you want it delivered elsewhere, for example at your personal talk page, please add the relevant page here.

Thanks for your attention and happy editing, Elitre (WMF) 18:12, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
Please notice the correct direct link to access Beta features is this one. Thanks for your understanding! Elitre (WMF) 18:35, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
@Elitre (WMF): Would I be right in presuming that this is for Wikidata/Project: and Help: namespace predominantly? I am guessing not for item (Q) and property (P) namespaces as they already have a customised editor.  — billinghurst sDrewth 00:58, 24 November 2014 (UTC)
Yes. Not on items and properties. --Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) (talk) 07:11, 24 November 2014 (UTC)
Elitre (WMF), Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) , any chance of getting Flow working on the talk pages here? Filceolaire (talk) 00:02, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
I'm working on that but there are still a few features the Flow team wants to finish before that makes sense. I'll keep you posted. --Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) (talk) 00:04, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
I hope the will be an RFC before FLOW gets enabled so that I will have a chance to strong oppose.--Ymblanter (talk) 17:54, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
+1 to that Yaroslav. --AmaryllisGardener talk 18:43, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
I want to have a discussion about this, yes. (Personal hate of RfCs ;-)) Let's objectively look at it when the Flow team thinks it is ready for us to test. I'd love for us to support them if we can. We are one of the few projects that are actually open to new things. Let's not lose that. (And of course let's also not use something that will make Wikidata worse. But let's look at this when the time comes.) --Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) (talk) 19:37, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
  • What exactly is the point of VE here? I don't see it as being useful except in the main namespace in general, and here it doesn't make sense to have VE in the mainspace. --Jakob (talk) 18:51, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
Thanks Lydia. Filceolaire (talk) 07:35, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
Probably they want just to have another wiki to add to a "Visual Editor successfully enabled" list, even if it doesn't make a lot of sense. That said, it will not hurt here, either. It's just for a very limited area of the project. Gestumblindi (talk) 19:19, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
It'll be helpful for the help and project namespace pages. Not a lot but still significant enough imho. (Says the one who regularly curses wiki tables...) --Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) (talk) 19:37, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

access to data for Commons coming on Dec 2nd[edit]

Hey folks :)

On request Commons is the next sister project to get access to the data on Wikidata. We'll be doing this on December 2nd. Please help update and expand c:Commons:Wikidata and Wikidata:Wikimedia Commons. Two caveats: 1) This is restricted to accessing data from the item connected to the page via sitelink. Access to data from arbitrary items will follow in January/February. 2) This is not for storing meta data about individual files. This will come later as part of the structured data on Commons project and be stored on Commons itself.

Looking forward to seeing what great things this will make possible again!

Cheers --Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) (talk) 12:32, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Thanks but I do not think it will make anything great possible until~we get arbitrary access. Also, note that by default, labels are shown in the site's default language (English). What we would need is the user's default language ({{int:lang}}) + fallback. Only arbitrary access lets us get around that through wikibase.getEntityObject(). --Zolo (talk) 13:45, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
That's why arbitrary access will come early next year ;-) --Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) (talk) 14:01, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

Reverting changes by a new user[edit]

A new user has made some edits to the labels and descriptions of two items, the changes to the English version being clearly wrong (as in: deleting the English label, description and alias of a property).

Can I (or someone else) just restore the previous versions (would be a matter of seconds)? Or do we have to investigate whether their changes to other language (zh and zh-tw) entries were valid? (I would be inclined to just restoring the previous versions of those two items, but I am not familiar enough with the WikiData community to know if that approach could be considered too aggressive/disrespectful.)

The Items are Property:P437 (distribution) and Q7889 (video game). -- KonB (talk) 14:09, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

These have been cleaned, though someone who knows zh languages would do well to review the edited entry Meteor Butterfly and a blade.net (Q10383333) and the new entry Master of Meteor Blades (Q18562459)  — billinghurst sDrewth 01:12, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

Chrome bug?[edit]

Recently I haven't been able to save Statements when using Google Chrome for Mac OS. (Yosemite)

I can still save using Mozilla Firefox for Mac. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 06:59, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Is this still an issue? If so can you open the console (F12 on my system - not sure what that translates to on Mac) and see if there are any errors? Can you add ?action=purge to the URL of the item you can't add statements to and see if that helps? Can you edit labels, descriptions, aliases and sitelinks? --Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) (talk) 19:40, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

Invalid token?[edit]

I'm trying to link a Fywiki page to this item (Q18571952), but it doesn't take en continues to say it's an "invalid token", when it's clearly a normal Wikipedia page. What's an "invalid token" and why is this item refusing take the link? Ieneach fan 'e Esk (talk) 13:52, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

@Ieneach fan 'e Esk: I think it worked for me. Is that the correct page I added? --Tobias1984 (talk) 14:02, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
@Tobias1984: Yes, it is. Thank you. So how did you do it? Ieneach fan 'e Esk (talk) 14:07, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
@Ieneach fan 'e Esk: Just the usual way: First language label and then the page. The Wikidata-software still has some weird behaviour sometimes. By the way: Is the infobox not supposed to say "Marmota kastschenkoi" at the bottom: fy:Wâldsteppemarmot. --Tobias1984 (talk) 14:24, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
@Tobias1984: Well, thanks anyway. And yes, it is to say that, of course. That's what comes of copying an infobox from another page and then editing it, in stead of starting with an empty infobox. Thanks for pointing this out to me. Ieneach fan 'e Esk (talk) 14:45, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
Same problem in last days with Internet Explorer. Solution: close the browse and reopen it. No problem with Chrome. --ValterVB (talk) 14:34, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
Ah, I see. Thanks. That's quite helpful. Ieneach fan 'e Esk (talk) 14:45, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
@Ieneach fan 'e Esk: One more question :) - Why is the range map not on Commons? Can you transfer it? --Tobias1984 (talk) 15:11, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
@Tobias1984:Because I made it myself, based on the map shown on this page. About transferring stuff to Commons... Yeah, I've had a bellyful of the copyright Gestapo that's active overthere, so I don't upload files to Commons anymore. But feel absolutely free to transfer the map yourself, if you want. Ieneach fan 'e Esk (talk) 15:34, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

populated places without P17[edit]

Please help to add P17 to these cases:

Yamaha5 (talk) 16:11, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

✓ Done about 400 Russian and Swedish islands. --- Jura 17:17, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
So, what country should Antarctic Peninsula (Q185605) be in? I would say none. /ℇsquilo 17:50, 24 November 2014 (UTC)
@Esquilo: "None" should probably the preferred statement. But there are also claims by UK, Chile, and Argentine which should probably be marked as deprecated statements, because the Antarctic Treaty is the only compromise that everybody accepts. --Tobias1984 (talk) 18:04, 24 November 2014 (UTC)
}} "Country: Antarctica" is technically inaccurate on all sorts of levels, but many databases use it as a placeholder and it's reasonably well understood. Listing the Antarctic territories is possible - but be careful with this approach. Chile and Argentina claim it as a coherent part of their national territory, but the UK considers their claim to be an "overseas territory" (comparable to, say, the Falklands), and I believe most other claims are of this form. They're not quite the same kind of thing.
In addition, we can't rely on listing the territorial claims (disputed or not) to handle Antarctica as there's a large sector of West Antarctica, in Marie Byrd Land, which is not covered by any of them. So we'd need a different solution in any case. Andrew Gray (talk) 21:17, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
Alternatively, could we set up a check such that any geographical feature with continent (P30):Antarctica (Q51) does not require a country (P17) property? Andrew Gray (talk) 21:20, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
@Esquilo, Tobias1984, Andrew Gray: Using "Country:Antartica" works but, in my opinion, a better solution is to mark these "continent (P30):Antarctica (Q51)" and note that P30 is acceptable instead of P17. P30 to be used for places in Antartica and for places which are in more that one country, such as some lakes and mountain chains etc.

MMSI[edit]

It turns out that (REDIRECT ME) MarineTraffic Ship ID (P1623) is a duplicate of MMSI (P587). Do we have a process for merging properties? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:04, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

First of all: file a request at Wikidata:Properties for deletion. thx --Succu (talk) 20:37, 23 November 2014 (UTC) PS: (REDIRECT ME) MarineTraffic Ship ID (P1623) is not used. --Succu (talk) 20:39, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Remember that just because an item is not used on Wikidata that doesn't mean that it isn't used by an external data user. That is why we should redirect merged items so that our item IDs are stable, even over years so functions using these continue to work. Filceolaire (talk) 23:55, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

While your point is a good one, this is about a property, not an item. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:10, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
D'oh. Sorry there. This will remind me to read more carefully before commenting. Thanks Andy. Filceolaire (talk) 07:23, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

Adding Statement to multiple items based on category/template[edit]

Can we add same statement to multiple articles based on category or template? For example, we see Category:Indian painters and add statements like Occupation =painter and instance of=human in every item related to article in that category. Wikidata Useful tool let it do for multiple statement but not for single statement and only for enwiki categories. Array Properties tool was requesting same to User:Legobot but now it seems not working. Is there any tool for doing this? Quickstatement tool is not helpful too. Can anyone create such tool. Please check array property tool for ideas. Regards -Nizil Shah (talk) 21:11, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Yes. with autolist you can add by categoryYamaha5 (talk) 21:22, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

sister city (P190) not at both items[edit]

Many couple items sister city (P190) are not at both items. for example at Taichung (Q245023) > San Pedro Sula (Q274584) is sister city but at San Pedro Sula (Q274584) doesn't mentioned Taichung (Q245023) as sister City.Yamaha5 (talk) 21:19, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

@Yamaha5: Magnus' tools are so great so this could be easy to solve. Here is the query and here is the tool. Open Notepad (Q274098) and copy the result to remove links, then copy this result to Microsoft Word (Q11261). Use find & replace (regex) with expressions [0-9]@.?(Q[0-9]@) → (Q[0-9]@)([!0-9])\2^tP190^t\1\3. Then move the text to the tool. You can start. Maybe the user could set a source like stated in (P248) and add it to the replace string – \2^tP190^t\1^tS248^t\1\3. Matěj Suchánek (talk) 12:53, 24 November 2014 (UTC)
Thats great! thanks. it works :) it was 4625 cases! Yamaha5 (talk) 14:35, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

Coordinates broken?[edit]

Has something broken our coordinates? I've seen several items, in the last 24 hours or so, whose coordinate location (P625) value is "0°0'NFF"N, 0°0'NFF"E", even though a value was entered. See, for example, this fix. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:27, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

@Pigsonthewing: Wikidata:Contact the development team#Rendering of coordinates. Nobody has answered so far, there were some changes according to the latest status update. Matěj Suchánek (talk) 12:59, 24 November 2014 (UTC)
Being worked on :) Should be fixed with next deployment. --Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) (talk) 19:42, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

Statistics[edit]

I was just looking at the statistics. We passes 50 million statements this month (http://tools.wmflabs.org/wikidata-todo/stats.php), which is incredible. But can anyone explain to me why the graph "statements per item" goes up to 16 million, but Wikidata's front page says we have roughly 13 million items? Do we already have 3 million redirects? --Tobias1984 (talk) 09:06, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

And even better, if the concept would be fixed. The section "In other languages" on an item page states names, incl. aliases, in other languages than the user's interface language. These are statements too, but User:Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) does list them outside the section "Statements". But when looking at Wikidata:UI redesign input it seems Wikidata is caught by featurities - creating new things, and not fixing bugs. Andrea Shan (talk) 06:00, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
@Tobias1984: According to my counting, there are 16,604,166 items and 53,615 redirects
@Andrea Shan: The meaning of a label, description and alias is not user interface dependent and conceptually, there is a large difference between terms and statements. If you don't like the "In other language" section, you can put a single babel-box to your user page. Then only terms in this language will be shown and all others are removed. And please, avoid personal attacks. The relation between the development team and the Wikidata community is quite well. We do not have to change this. --Pasleim (talk) 08:05, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
@Pasleim: And do you maybe know why the statistics on the front page say 12,873,909? How is that number generated? --Tobias1984 (talk) 08:19, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
The frontpage shows what is in Special:Statistics. Higher numbers might be due to any of the following for example: 1) taking the Q number instead of actually counting 2) not taking deletions into account 3) counting redirects differently --Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) (talk) 08:27, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
@Magnus Manske: Sorry to be so nosey about this, but I would really like to know how these numbers are derived. I don't think it is the Q-number Lydia because those are already at 18575104. --Tobias1984 (talk) 10:54, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
Maybe can be useful «will be counted as an article in the statistics if it contains at least one wiki link». --ValterVB (talk) 18:22, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
Hmmm interesting. So you mean the low number wouldn't include items without statements/sitelinks? I had not thought of that but it is possible. I opened phabricator:T76071 to investigate further. --Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) (talk) 19:46, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
Lucie investigated it. Her conclusions are in the ticket. --Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) (talk) 17:24, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── @Lydia Pintscher (WMDE): Wouldn't it be good then to make 2 rows on the Statistics page: (1) Total items; (2) Items (excluding those with 0-statements). I think it would help especially for outside reporters or the press to get the numbers right. --Tobias1984 (talk) 20:48, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

Yeah that makes sense. Or at least have a clear description explaining what it actually means. I have to be honest though it's not super high on the list of things to do at the moment imho. --Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) (talk) 21:52, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

Name statements[edit]

@Pasleim: There is no conceptual difference between a name statement in the section "In other languages" and in the section "Statements". See the various name related properties. Maybe you got confused by the interface that WMDE under the reign of Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) created. What does User:Emw think? I would like all name statements be properly handled via Wikidata:Properties, so they are then included into the statement count, making the value number Tobias1984 mentioned above easier understandable. Andrea Shan (talk) 21:17, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

Andrea Shan, I don't know why you are so unhappy with me but can we please keep this is friendly space? Feel free to email me and tell me what happened that you are unhappy with me so we can sort this out. --Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) (talk) 21:49, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

Cases which doesn't have P31 but have P155 or P156[edit]

There are 8,576 cases which don't have instance of (P31) but have follows (P155) or followed by (P156) at here how can I find Q31 from P155 or P156 target Q? Like this Yamaha5 (talk) 13:26, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

@Yamaha5: WDQ does not support variables, so one possibility is to choose one claim and make a more specific query. For example you can get this list for all possible albums. BTW if possible, add more specific instances of albums rather than just album (Q482994). Matěj Suchánek (talk) 15:48, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
Thanks this is usefulYamaha5 (talk) 19:15, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

Wanted: bot to archive user talk page[edit]

Do we have a bot to archive user talk pages, like those on en.Wikipedia? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:11, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

Special:Contributions/Hazard-Bot. Matěj Suchánek (talk) 14:54, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
Thank you; that's the bot I needed. For the benefit of others, User:Hazard-Bot/Archiver has instructions. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:07, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

Follows Property (P155)[edit]

For follows (P155) should both items are the same type? For example: At Interrex (Q1569007) (Organization) follows (P155) > Anna Jagiellon (Q233989) (Human) is correct? Yamaha5 (talk) 19:38, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

Hi Yamaha5, I won't answer your question but I saw you added follows (P155) and followed by (P156) to many items as a statement. IMHO this property should only be used as a qualifier, for position held (P39) for example. Otherwise you don't know for which function the property applies. See for example Barack Obama (Q76). Thanks. — Ayack (talk) 21:10, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
I added these property by their paired one. please see this and the Query Yamaha5 (talk) 21:16, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
I can foresee examples where a person follows an organisation, or vice versa. Consider "person of the year" awards, which may occasionally be made to a team or group. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:11, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
I think your example is not correct and I deleted, see the dates.--Oursana (talk) 02:12, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
So can we say the example in below?
In my opinion both side of P155 should have the same instance of (P31) Like shares border with (P47) which is meant only for "countries or administrative subdivisions, of equal level, that this item borders". Yamaha5 (talk) 05:52, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
+1, also see replaced by (P1366)--Oursana (talk) 16:57, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
P155 implies a continuity. So it makes no sense to use this after a turmoil without taking care of the changed political situation. So you can not take an elected primeminister as the follower of a King after abolishing monarchy.--Giftzwerg 88 (talk) 17:15, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
@Giftzwerg 88: I mentioned that example to show we should have the same type items. please read my commentYamaha5 (talk) 17:54, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
For follows (P155) both items should be the same or similar album2 by band follows album1; book2 by author follows book2; nobel laureate1 in foo is followed by nobel laureate2 in foo.
Don't use Follows for heads of state and other offices. For these use replaces (P1365) and replaced by (P1366). Iranian democracy replaced by kingdom replaced by Islamic republic; Khomeni replaces the Shah replaces Mossadegh. Again both items should be similar. There is only one head of state at a time but album1 and album2 are both still on sale.
Just think "Could you take all the items linked by these properties and make a coherent 'List of' article from them?" Filceolaire (talk) 07:10, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

Admin needed for property deletion - P202 lake type[edit]

Could an admin delete P202? See Property talk:P202#Deletion. Andrea Shan (talk) 07:11, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

✓ Done --Pasleim (talk) 08:07, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
Pasleim - Thanks a lot! Very helpful! Andrea Shan (talk) 21:18, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

WDQ -- how to pass characters with accents and diacritics ?[edit]

Simple question, probably: How should characters with accents and diacritics be encoded for WDQ ?

The search I want is e.g. STRING[373:"Andreas Möller"], which should return Andreas Møller (Q499694).

I have tried

http://wdq.wmflabs.org/api?q=string[373:"Andreas Möller"]

and

http://wdq.wmflabs.org/api?q=string[373:%22Andreas%20M%C3%B6ller%22]

from the keyboard (and the latter through a script, the result of Perl's URI::Escape) but these both give back

{"status":{"error":"OK","items":0,"querytime":"177ms","parsed_query":"STRING[373:'Andreas Möller']"},"items":[]}

Is there a different encoding that I ought to be using? (@Magnus Manske: ?) -- Jheald (talk) 21:34, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

I don´t know if that is your answer. This says "ö" is "\u00F6". But the right answer is "\u00f6" (small f). Than you get the item q499694 as answer. --Molarus 01:21, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
So it seems WDQ will accept
http://wdq.wmflabs.org/api?q=string[373:%22Andreas%20M\u00f6ller%22] (so long as the 'f' is small, ie not 'F6')
I thought URLs should usually be translated into UTF-8 and percent-encoded, hence the "%C3%B6" (because this is what browsers do).
But I can achieve the form above in Perl using the Encode::Escape::Unicode library. @Molarus: Thanks! Jheald (talk) 09:50, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

statements on properties and first language fallbacks are coming[edit]

Hey folks :)

Good news before the end of the year!

  • You can go to test.wikidata.org right now and test out statements on properties. If everything goes well we will make it available on Wikidata in 1 week. One thing that is missing is a new datatype to link to other properties to indicate things like "property x is the inverse of property y". That will come a bit later. Discussion about proposed properties to be used on properties is happening at Wikidata:Property proposal/Property metadata.
  • Language fallbacks are coming. This is a first version. It'll only show fallbacks of linked entities on an item. So if you are viewing an item with a statement linking to another item you will see a label in another language for this linked item if it doesn't have a label in your language. Fallbacks are currently implemented to follow the fallback for system messages. Unfortunately you can't try that out on test.wikidata.org yet. That'll hopefully happen next week. It should go live on Wikidata in two weeks.

Cheers --Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) (talk) 16:35, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

On test.wikidata.org I can only add statements on properties directly after I have created a new property. Later on, no editing is possible because no edit/add button is shown. --Pasleim (talk) 14:11, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
Ewww... Marius just made a patch for it: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/176360 Thanks for testing. --Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) (talk) 14:20, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
Will language fallbacks apply for Wikidata UI only or to labels retrieved via API/template inclusion syntax (e.g. in Wikipedia) as well? --DixonD (talk) 18:53, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
It should come via the API as well. (I need to verify though.) On the client not yet. See phabricator:T76216 and its blockers. --Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) (talk) 19:02, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
That's unfortunate. I hope that there will be a way not to use language fallbacks (or to check whether they are used for the particular property at least) in the property parser function. The community of Ukrainian Wikipedia is really frustrated having Russian as a fallback for Ukrainian no matter how many times we tried to change that and if we get Russian text in Ukrainian Wikipedia articles via infoboxes, for instance, that will be a disaster. --DixonD (talk) 19:43, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
That's a good point, DixonD. What kind of fallback would be good for the specific case of the Ukrainian Wikipedia? --Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) (talk) 21:46, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
Personally, I think we don't need language fallbacks for all Wikidata clients (except maybe Wikimedia Commons) and the Ukrainian Wikipedia, in particular. While Wikidata is a multilingual project, Wikipedias, Wikisources etc are monolingual, so they don't need texts in foreign languages to appear on content pages. Ideally, it would be great to have it configurable per site, so that the local community could decide what language fallbacks they would like to have if any. --DixonD (talk) 23:23, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
Will language fallbacks be imported to Wikipedia as well or will we still have the number of the element in Q123456 format? In current situation it is quite obvious for a reader that one gets Q-some numbers as a label is not available on Wikidata, but getting a mix of names in a local language and names in a fallback language may be mess. As an example, en:Bavaria and de:Bavaria mean different things to an English and to a German speaker. Thus it is very important to make sure that names in fallback languages will not appear in Wikipedias in a local language, or at least they will be clearly highlighted to avoid ambiguity — NickK (talk) 20:13, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
Yeah we will probably have a more limited number of fallbacks on the Wikipedias. I still need to wrap my head around that part so specific examples of what fallback you'd like to see and which not are really helpful. --Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) (talk) 21:46, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

New qualifier needed - "verified account"?[edit]

I'm not sure the best way to structure this request - whether it is a proposed qualifier for the property website account on (P553), or another one like social networking service (Q3220391) or website username (P554) or Facebook (Q355) or Twitter (Q918) or... But what I'm looking for is a way to indicate that a social media account associated with a person or organisation has been officially 'verified' according to the rules of that website. You know: the little blue 'tick' that appears next to a famous person's name in twitter etc... "Verification" is increasingly an important tool of social networks to declare a fact about their highest visibility customers - that they are "the real person". I believe we should have a method for incorporating that fact into our data structure. As a side point, If used consistently, this would also be a valuable way to assist Wikipedia Infobox debates about whether a person/organisation's social media profile should be linked - and if so, which one(s).
What do you think, and how would you suggest formulating this proposal officially? Wittylama (talk) 10:58, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

One option is to say this in a qualifier or (maybe) better a reference using sourcing circumstances (P1480)confirmed users (Q13963290). Filceolaire (talk) 19:20, 28 November 2014 (UTC)