Talk:Q9458

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Autodescription — Muhammad (Q9458)

description: founder and main prophet of Islam (c. 570–632)
Useful links:
See also


Hazrat Suyibah Razi Allah anhan (حضرت ثویبه رضى اللّٰه عنها) is also foster mother's Prophet Muhammad, see Hadis Bukhari sharif: 5101 and his four ittiraf 5106, 5107, 5123 and 5372  – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 115.252.92.176 (talk • contribs) at 10:30‎, 22 May 2013 (UTC).[reply]

The Image[edit]

Hello.The Image Angers Muslims.Thank you --ديفيد عادل وهبة خليل 2 (talk) 06:30, 6 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Do not look at it.--Ymblanter (talk) 06:33, 6 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Ymblanter The Second is better for Muslims and non-Muslims.Best not to use images of Mohammed here.Even locally, I can not use these images locally because most of my colleagues are muslims --ديفيد عادل وهبة خليل 2 (talk) 11:39, 6 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
No problem, locally you should have an option which switches off the Wikidata image in a given template or/and displays a custom image instead. You can just use a custom image on your Wiki.--Ymblanter (talk) 11:44, 6 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Ymblanter The presence of the image here is bad idea (With respect).Better to put an image does not cause anger --ديفيد عادل وهبة خليل 2 (talk) 11:49, 6 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I fully, profoundly disagree. Removing the image because it can anger Muslims (or vegans, or pro-lifers, or adepts of Ilon Musk or whatever) is introduction of censorship and clearly contradicts to the idea of free knowledge. If you disagree, I suggest that you raise the question at the WD:Project Chat to get more opinions.--Ymblanter (talk) 11:55, 6 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I can't stand for a peculiar cat image, can I legitimately demand to delete it ? Wikidata isn't an ailurophobic, islamic or what-you-want database, it seems obvious that the image used is a "relevant illustration of the subject". Thus, even if you abhor it, there is no argument to remove it, especially a specious consideration about anger. 83.194.104.42 18:36, 2 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I am not sure which image the thread starter meant? Any context? And by the way, you're exactly right that Wikidata is not what-you-want database, so anyone cannot just put any images they want, for example, private images, images that would promote hatred/racism, irrelevant images (bird images for cat), etc. That is why there is protection to some Wikidata/Wikipedia pages ;-) 140.0.41.66 11:14, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Member of Parliament[edit]

I removed the property "Member of Parliament", as clearly anachronistic. Feel free to revert if you think it really applies here, but I guess this is a translation problem between the source (urdu) and English. Seudo (talk) 08:35, 18 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I also removed the birth name in Russian, since the birth name property normally has only one value. Seudo (talk) 12:40, 18 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Image[edit]

Hello @Aybeg: Brother, I am suggested that the picture of the Prophet Muhammad be erased. As a Muslim, I don't accept the Prophet Muhammad being painted and after all, there is no fundamental evidence that this image was painted at the time of the Prophet. Please tolerate all, all religions should be respected. thank you--Padliansyah553 (talk) 02:13, 18 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

We recommend that you replace it with Arabic calligraphy -- Padliansyah553 (talk) 02:14, 18 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Because there is no response, I will replace it. Thank you - Padliansyah553 (talk) 06:29, 18 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Aybeg, Padliansyah553: I agree. The majority of Muslims don't accept drawing prophet Muhammed or any other prophet. Since this item is purely related to Islam I agree that we should only use a calligraphy--باسم (talk) 09:36, 18 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I have requested for the item to be protected so this editing war does not continue @باسم:--Trade (talk) 00:40, 21 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with the decision, but the justification that there are no contemporary depictions is not relevant; that is true for many people in Wikidata. I wonder if the calligraphic roundels might better be called icon (P2910)s, though, and image (P18) left as special type 'none' (with qualifier statement is subject of (P805) iconoclasm (Q181543)). I don't think it's for me to make this decision, though. Wikidata is a do-ocracy, but as noted this is a particularly sensitive item. Arlo Barnes (talk) 22:54, 20 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I Suggest if any drawing is to be used in image (P18) to be among the Ottoman miniatures from Siyer-i Nebi, as it doesn't show the Prophet's features, but rather an illumines figure (like this). Note that even this might not be acceptable to some Muslims, but its better than to show a full drawing with all features. Personally i would advise to keep the calligraphy only, as it wont cause any controversies among the Muslim users no matter what school of thought they follow--باسم (talk) 12:16, 21 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
What does WD policy say?--Trade (talk) 12:44, 21 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@1997kB: we are discussing so as not to provoke an edit war. You are yourself in the editing war, if you want to change, discuss it on the talk page. Like me beforePadliansyah553 (talk) 14:41, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

better for image (P18) use one Siyer-i Nebi as said @باسم:.Padliansyah553 (talk) 14:45, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Discussing? Really? Yet you and Aybeg are reverting each other and there is even report about that on AN. And FYI I am not engaging in edit war with you, I just restored the status quo as it was before the edit war. ‐‐1997kB (talk) 17:36, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@1997kB: lets be crystal clear. An image that shows any features will not be acceptable for Muslims no matter what the reason is, even if it doesn't show in any article. If you insist on adding a picture then choose something that shows no features at all. This is no joke or something that any Muslim will take lightly, so please don't be provocative--باسم (talk) 16:10, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
User:باسم Sorry if it hurt your sentiments, but I am acting here only in my admin capacity to restore the status quo as before of edit war. About the image as you might already know we are not a censored project. Content should be free from any bias and neutral. Wikidata is used as a bridge to many wikis, and some of them don't want such image but some of them want. I think this situation require a wider discussion (an RFC) to reach on a middle ground where everyone can agree. Now being a fellow admin I advise you to carefully select your words and assume good faith, response like This is no joke or something that any Muslim will take lightly only gonna fuel this situation and is borderline threatening. ‐‐1997kB (talk) 17:36, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@1997kB: that's not to fuel any arguments, you missed the point, but in all cases I do select my words carefully thank you. I'm saying that this will cause a problem and will hurt a large portion of the contributors. If any image is to be added it should be as mentioned earlier--باسم (talk) 19:03, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

While having been raised a Muslim I also personally disfavor visual depictions of Muhammad, I tend to agree with Yaroslav (above, from four years ago) and 1997kB here that Wikidata fundamentally should not be censored—it is up to external users of Wikidata whether to display these images in their respective external areas. However, I also tend to agree with Bassem's suggestion to add the Siyer-i Nebi image, having done so in place of the Western depiction that was previously on that page, as those who do not observe, or are openly hostile to, Islam are likely not the best sources of imagery depicting Muhammad. Thus, having added that suggested image, I did not in turn remove the other two depictions, one from a text created at the request of Timur's son and one from a manuscript by a Persian polymath.

Any argument from the standpoint of religious tolerance is complicated by considering that there are nevertheless peoples whom you may otherwise agree are observant Muslims for the most part for whom this prohibition on imagery does not hold, no matter how much you may detest them. (The same may be said, with respect to Christian traditions which are similarly less aniconic, to individuals looking to remove depictions of other prophets from their items.) If you have a problem with those depictions that presumably observant Muslims created in their presumably majority Muslim jurisdictions and for which presumably they did not suffer at the hands of their Muslim rulers, then your problem is with the people in those societies—Turks, Persians, Shiites, whomever is your intended target in this case—and not with Wikidata. I suspect, however, that an RfC on this subject (in the interest of being able to answer questions like those listed here) will still be necessary should my words ring empty to you. Mahir256 (talk) 21:33, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Saya lihat pengeditan sudah dikunci (hanya untuk pengurus), saya sendiri berlepas diri darinya.--Padliansyah553 (talk) 06:48, 24 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Needed edit of WikiTree person ID[edit]

Identifier WikiTree person ID needs to be corrected to بن_عبدالله-3

✓ Done Ayack (talk) 19:41, 8 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Please add[edit]

BHCL UUID (P9037): 261863c4-2db3-4b7c-888d-3f289eb6a6c5 - thank you, Vojtěch Dostál (talk) 16:32, 8 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Vojtěch Dostál: ✓ Done Ayack (talk) 19:42, 8 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Ayack, TDV İslam Ansiklopedisi ID (P7314): muhammed → https://islamansiklopedisi.org.tr/muhammed. Maqivi (talk) 15:02, 25 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Matěj Suchánek, Epìdosis:, Encyclopaedia of Islam (second edition) ID (P9862) COM_0780 and TDV İslam Ansiklopedisi ID (P7314) ↑. Maqivi (talk) 07:47, 6 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

✓ Done --Matěj Suchánek (talk) 08:41, 6 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Czech description[edit]

Please add following Czech description / label:

Arabský náboženský a politický vůdce, prorok a zakladatel islámu

Thank you,--Ioannes Pragensis (talk) 12:35, 9 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

✓ Done --Matěj Suchánek (talk) 13:43, 22 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Persian description[edit]

Hi. Muhammad is not the prophet of en:Baháʼí Faith. But in the Persian description, "و بهائیت" means "and Baháʼí Faith". Please remove that from the Persian description. Thank you. —Jeeputer (talk) 10:51, 8 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Ladsgroup: سلام. لطفا این درخواست را انجام دهید GodNey (talk) 11:41, 22 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Jeeputer, GodNey:. I think it originally meant "a prophet in Islam and Bahi's faith" which is correct but useless and confusing. Done. Amir (talk) 15:30, 22 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Other languages[edit]

Same issue is existing some more languages as shown below,

Actually Bahaism or Ahmediya faiths were not existing during life of Muhammad. If bahai or Ahmediaya are agreeing Muhammad as a prophet, that is their own matter. As the Item is protected, asking for review these edits. With thanks,--Irshadpp (talk) 09:56, 14 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Interwiki in Javanese Wikipedia (jvwiki)[edit]

{{Edit request}} Hello, please change the interwiki and label of jv:Muhammad to jv:Mukamad according to Javanese dictionary[1] and literature. Also, please update the current description to "pangarsa agama saka Arab lan pangadeg Islam" (Arabian religious leader and the founder of Islam), and the "Also known as" to "Muhammad" and "Kangjeng Nabi Mukamad". Thank you! Labdajiwa (talk) 06:15, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ↑ Poerwadarminta, W.J.S (1939). Bausastra Jawa (in Javanese). Batavia: J.B. Wolters. pp. 302–325. 1. mékrad: (A) kn. munggah swarga saragané; [x]-an: riyaya mékradé K.N. Mukamad. 2. Mulud: kn. 1 dina wiyosan lan sédané K.N. Mukamad
@Labdajiwa: ✓ Done Ayack (talk) 16:50, 3 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Ayack: The sitelink hasn't changed yet. Can you update it, too? Thanks. Labdajiwa (talk) 20:12, 3 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Labdajiwa: ✓ Done. Ayack (talk) 07:31, 4 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Polish decription[edit]

I would like to add "also know as" in Polish language

Muhammad, Prorok Mahomet, Prorok Muhammad, Pieczęć Proroków


thank you--Madrasapl (talk) 22:55, 16 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

✓ Done --Matěj Suchánek (talk) 08:41, 6 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Add new wiki page[edit]

Hello can you link this page shi:Muḥammad to this Wikidata item ? --AyourAchtouk (talk) 11:17, 21 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@AyourAchtouk: ✓ Done. --Epìdosis 11:38, 21 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

new sitelink[edit]

Please add a sitelink to w:crh:Muhammed. - Andre Engels (talk) 15:46, 21 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Andre Engels: ✓ Done. --Epìdosis 15:56, 21 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Please add a sitelink[edit]

Please add a sitelink to q:ja:ムハンマド・イブン＝アブドゥッラーフ. --20041027 tatsu (talk) 10:39, 28 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Matěj Suchánek:--Trade (talk) 15:28, 3 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Please add facial hair > beard to the item --Trade (talk) 15:37, 3 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
✓ Done --Matěj Suchánek (talk) 09:26, 4 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Edit request for ckbwiki description[edit]

Hello, Please replace ckbwiki description with "پێغەمبەری ئایینی ئیسلام" per discussion. Thanks! Aram (talk) 14:52, 12 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

✓ Done --Matěj Suchánek (talk) 08:41, 6 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

EPWN identifier[edit]

Hi. Please create a Online PWN Encyclopedia ID (P7305) claim with value "3936233" (my bot was unable to do so, see context). Thanks, Peter Bowman (talk) 22:38, 22 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

✓ Done --Matěj Suchánek (talk) 08:41, 6 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Please remove P6656[edit]

Hi, please remove property:P6656 (deprecated). Thanks CC @Matěj Suchánek Vojtěch Dostál (talk) 09:50, 10 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

✓ OK. --Matěj Suchánek (talk) 10:46, 10 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Remove article language[edit]

Please remove article of "Nabi Muhammad SAW" for Malay Wikipedia (ms) instead, replace with "Muhammad". Also, please connect Nabi Muhammad SAW of mswiki with Muhammad in Islam (Q6932888). Nabi Muhammad SAW is Islamic perpective while Muhammad is overall perspective. Thank you. CyberTroopers (talk) 07:29, 14 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Salah informasi[edit]

Nabi Muhammad allā llāhu alayhi wa-sallam bukanlah pendiri Islam.

Dia adalah seorang Nabi dan Rasul.

Islam sudah ada sejak penciptaan manusia. Semua Nabi termasuk Adam,Nuh,Musa, Isa adalah Muslim ExistingAccountInTheDunya (talk) 15:09, 3 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Wrong Information[edit]

Prophet Muhammad ṣallā llāhu ʿalayhi wa-sallam was not the founder Islam.

He was a Prophet and a Rasul.

Islam had been there since the creation of mankind. All Prophets including Adam, Noah,Moses, Jesus were Muslims. ExistingAccountInTheDunya (talk) 15:10, 3 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Add P10242[edit]

Can someone add Lur Encyclopedic Dictionary ID (P10242)? The code is 03977/eu_m_0226/m0226 and object named as (P1932) "Mahoma edo Mahomet" as qualifier. Thanks! -Theklan (talk) 17:37, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

✓ Done Mahir256 (talk) 17:14, 1 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Add page in kmwiki[edit]

Hello can you please add មហាម៉េដ from kmwiki please thank you Tiamichaelnuksu1994 (talk) 14:57, 1 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

✓ Done Mahir256 (talk) 17:14, 1 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Add MusicBrainz artist ID[edit]

Could someone link https://musicbrainz.org/artist/a7fac559-f72e-4c9c-a746-9a6dd08902db as the MusicBrainz artist ID for this item? --Reosarevok (talk) 05:44, 11 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

✓ Done Mahir256 (talk) 14:58, 14 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Request[edit]

Mahir256, could you add my statements added here to this item? @Mahir256:--Trade (talk) 14:43, 14 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

✓ Done Mahir256 (talk) 14:58, 14 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Page moved[edit]

✓ Done Mahir256 (talk) 13:09, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Google search is a bad source for Muhammad's birth date[edit]

One of the sources for the birth date is literally a google.com search query. It should be removed. Le Loy (talk) 12:11, 8 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Another source for that date is a book called "My Journey & Sovereign United Bengal" written by HP Roychoudhury who is not in any possible way an expert on Islam. Please remove it too, together with the date itself as there is no scientific or theological consensus on Muhammad's birth date. There is not a single mention of this date (or any other date!) in the book by Marion Holmes Katz "The Birth of The Prophet Muhammad" (Routledge 2007, ISBN 0-203-96214-1). This date has to be set to "undefined". Le Loy (talk) 12:24, 8 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Le Loy: While I have removed the offending date with day precision from the item, I am keeping the other date with year precision unless there is a problem with the reference on it as well. Mahir256 (talk) 13:34, 8 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Turkish description[edit]

It should be "Arap dini lider ve İslam'ın kurucusu" Hedda Gabler (talk) 16:17, 14 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Hedda Gabler: ✓ Done Mahir256 (talk) 15:40, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Request[edit]

Please add zh-classical:穆罕默德 to this item. Yumeto (talk) 04:03, 5 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Yumeto: ✓ Done Mahir256 (talk) 15:40, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Edit request[edit]

{{Editrequest}} Please add the sitelink q:bn:মুহাম্মাদ to this item. Thanks. (See also the section before this one!) Jon Harald Søby (talk) 15:30, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Jon Harald Søby: ✓ Done Mahir256 (talk) 15:40, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Add P5008[edit]

{{editrequest}}

Would it be possible to add on focus list of Wikimedia project (P5008) Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/4 (Q6173448) and point in time (P585) 2022-10-31 as qualifier? Thanks! Theklan (talk) 18:30, 3 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Theklan sounds reasonable, but more exact is Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/4/People (Q6173639). You can fulfill this request by yourself Estopedist1 (talk) 06:18, 4 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
All the other articles on the list were uploaded as Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/4 (Q6173448), so for consistency it should be the same. Also, I can't edit the item, is blocked. Theklan (talk) 11:38, 4 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
✓ fulfilled @Theklan: thanks for the info!--Estopedist1 (talk) 07:24, 6 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The Image[edit]

{{editrequest}}

Those images are not acccepted in Islam. This item subject is pure Islamic. Why is this image? Also there is no evidence about it. Delete it.--البراء صالح (talk) 15:41, 12 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@البراء صالح please clarify, which image(s) you are talking about Estopedist1 (talk) 04:52, 20 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Estopedist1: I mean these two images that show a painted face. How do they that face is for the Massenger of Allah - صلى الله عليه وسلم -. That subject is pure Islamic. So, no meaning to provoke Muslims with these unacceptable images under the pretext of neutrality and the like. It is a purely Islamic subject, so the beliefs of Muslims are taken into account.--البراء صالح (talk) 01:02, 24 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@البراء صالح: Please read my comment from 21:33, 23 October 2020 (UTC) earlier on this page. Mahir256 (talk) 02:31, 24 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
earlier thread at Talk:Q9458#Image. This probably needs wider discussion, hence I de-activated editrequest--Estopedist1 (talk) 06:32, 24 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
By wider discussion i assume you mean an request for comment? Trade (talk) 16:17, 5 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Censorship[edit]

What is the reason for Dark vignette Al-Masjid AL-Nabawi Door800x600x300.jpg to be the default image? I thought Wikidata was not censored. Why not have Muslim depiction of Muhammad - 17th century Ottoman copy from the "Edinburgh codex".jpg as the main image? Rock3003 (talk) 21:52, 6 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@User:Mahir256 Can you edit the default image? --Rock3003 (talk) 06:36, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Quran[edit]

Muhammad is not the author of the Quran, he is the source. The Quran was written by other people. Pessimist (talk) 05:56, 4 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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